Divine Communication

[Alceste]

The irony of this post is the atheist can have divine communication with the creator, but they have to have faith first. The atheist wants proof first, the creator wants faith first, it's a stand off. Who is going to win?

I don't "want proof" of the existence of gods. I couldn't care less about whether or not they exist. Many religious people insist their god wants me to believe in and worship it. If that's the case, he must not want it very much, or he wouldn't be acting like a shy schoolboy, sending his friends to find out how I feel about him and tell me what a great guy he is. Why would I want a relationship with a shy schoolboy god? Any god worthy of my attention and admiration will present clear and unambiguous evidence of its existence directly to me, without any middle men, games, tests or instruction manuals.

Anyway, to answer your question, the atheist "wins" by default, because the atheist actually exists while the hypothetical opponent and his games do not.

 

[slave2six]

Originally Posted by slave2six
Isn't order and certainty precisely what we provide for our children ...

Not if you're a decent parent.

I missed something here. I always thought that a decent parent was defined as one who provides a home, food, clothing and safety for their children while also participating in that child's life thus providing a stable environment. Did I miss something?

If we are to take "God's" example and apply it to parenting then I suppose we could heave all our kids into a warehouse with some food and furniture then never interact with them again.

 

[slave2six]

Originally Posted by slave2six
And they kill each other because this group doesn't believe in the same way as that group. So, yeah, it seems reasonable that if God cares about people that he would show up and reveal himself to each of us in a way that we understand so that we stop killing each other. I mean, what kid fights with his/her siblings about what their dad is like? And if he showed up then there would be no need for religion at all because each one would know him themselves. Isn't that what the Christian picture of Heaven is?

He probably doesn't want to hear you call him cruel or something.

He must be a sensitive soul...

 

[slave2six]

Originally Posted by slave2six
The instant you say that God can't do something then you remove omnipotence from his attributes which in turn changes him/her/it from God Almighty to a minor deity that only has some powers and not others

I think you need to do some research on pantheism/ panentheism.

I like you Storm. Honestly. I just think that we are talking across one another. As I said before I was speaking of God as a person not as nature and God being equivalent.

God forbid someone introduce another concept.

Again, I think you introduced a concept that was not implied in the OP and I misunderstood what you were saying. My apologies.

Originally Posted by slave2six
You prefer all this chaos, debate, confusion and even the most faithful struggle with legitimate doubts?

Way to twist my words.

Right back atcha. I merely asked a question and you turned it into a statement. So, if you care to answer whether or not you prefer the chaos that is to something more certain, that may be helpful.

 

[slave2six]

The irony of this post is the atheist can have divine communication with the creator, but they have to have faith first. The atheist wants proof first, the creator wants faith first, it's a stand off. Who is going to win?

Again, this is entirely in the court of the creator. I mean, honestly, would you or any other decent person behave in such ways with your own kids and then punish them because they are incapable of believing in something without proof? This is the big problem that I have with people's portrayals of God. The more you look at this Person the more you realize that his/her/its character is sub-human. If it was super-human then being the greater of the two he/she/it would communicate with the lesser in ways that the lesser can understand.

You may be telepathic and may live in a society of telepaths but if you want to communicate with me then no amount of telepathy is gonna be effective because I'm simply not equipped for it.

 

[slave2six]

Thus God is the conceptual equal of the Invisible Pink Unicorn or Tooth Fairy. All are equally plausible.

Thank you! I was beginning to think the rest of the word has gone mad.

 

[slave2six]

Any god worthy of my attention and admiration will present clear and unambiguous evidence of its existence directly to me, without any middle men, games, tests or instruction manuals.

Anyway, to answer your question, the atheist "wins" by default, because the atheist actually exists while the hypothetical opponent and his games do not.

Well said. Thanks for the sanity check!