Divine Justice

[Estro Felino]

This thread is about God's justice. Christians can express their vision on how God's justice operates; but even Atheists' view is welcome.

I am Pelagian. So I believe in free will, and given that we have free will, we are responsible for everything that we do in our lives. If we destroy other people's lives we can never be saved. Because our salvation doesn't depend on God.
It's we who decide our afterlife. So if we stain our soul with evil actions and incredible hatred, that's what our Afterlife will be: a prison of eternal remorse and perpetual hatred, dissatisfaction, delusion. If that's not Hell....
This is Justice. When we die, we are imprisoned in our soul; but if our soul is full of altruistic deeds, love towards the others and creativity, we will certainly enjoy a heavenly afterlife.

From the Bible:
Blessed those who thirst and hunger for justice, for they will be satisfied.

And an Angel will come forth, and will sever the wicked from among the just.

 

[Mycroft]

I think Justice is a very subjective term. As is Divinity.

For example God smiting those who worshipped the Golden Calf might be considered 'Justice'. I call it 'Murder'.

 

[Desert Snake]

I'm pretty sure that isn't the Christian belief.

But, I think you should provide verses to back your claim.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think Justice is a very subjective term. As is Divinity.

For example God smiting those who worshipped the Golden Calf might be considered 'Justice'. I call it 'Murder'.

I totally agree. That's why I think that the Old Testament (sometimes) contents anti-Christian episodes or statements, written by people who were certainly not inspired by God.

A vengeful, bloody God has never existed.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm pretty sure that isn't the Christian belief.

But, I think you should provide verses to back your claim.

It is not, indeed. It's an intuition, but I'm quite sure that some people could agree with me.

 

[Quintessence]

This is a pretty foreign concept in my religion, generally speaking, and I find the concept of justice to be a social construct as well. In essence, justice speaks to the human desire for fairness and reciprocity. For the most part, the gods don't share this desire because they can't feel desire in the first place, much less feel things like concern for an abstract, constructed ideal like justice, fairness, or reciprocity. For the gods that do have more human qualities, their manner of constructing the concept of justice tends to be very different from ours and would vary significantly depending on the god. This isn't too surprising, considering the manner in which specific humans construct the concept of justice isn't consistent either.

 

[Jainarayan]

This is a pretty foreign concept in my religion, generally speaking, and I find the concept of justice to be a social construct as well.

This can be said for Hinduism too, as well as Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Taoism, and I daresay most religions having their roots in south and east Asia. There's no concept of divine or supra-mundane justice, nor is their reward and punishment. There is only actions and their results, i.e. karma.

 

[Susanpalli,JW]

As an avid Bible student, I understand the following about divine justice:

1. God will punish the wicked with everlasting destruction (death).
Check out (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10) and ( John 3:16)

2. Before their judgement, however, the wicked will have a chance to repent.
Ezekiel 18:21 reads:" now if someone wicked turns away from all the sins he has committed
and keeps my statutes and does what is just and righteous, he will surely keep living.
He will not die.

3. God will reward those who do His will with everlasting life. (John 3:16)

 

[Nothingness888]

God takes account of every word and thing we do. He allows the fallen angels to tempt man and give them wealth: giving long life and power, so they can have a greater punishment.

Others the Only God keeps from their desires to lead them and guide them closer to Him. He wants to reward His servants with eternal glory.

Everyone will be rewarded on the Day of Judgement. On this day all our lives will be judged and we will be rewarded accordingly. Those who worship other gods than the Only God will be given justice. Those who are sincere believers of the Most High will be given mercy.

 

[Sleeppy]

There is only God's will; free will is an illusion. Wickedness is destroyed by social charity; leadership, friendship, medication, etc.

 

[Mycroft]

As an avid Bible student, I understand the following about divine justice:

1. God will punish the wicked with everlasting destruction (death).
Check out (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10) and ( John 3:16)

Define 'wicked' what are the operations of 'wicked'?

I am wearing mixed fibers. Is that wicked?

2. Before their judgement, however, the wicked will have a chance to repent.
Ezekiel 18:21 reads:" now if someone wicked turns away from all the sins he has committed
and keeps my statutes and does what is just and righteous, he will surely keep living.
He will not die.

And if I refuse to recognise his authority?

3. God will reward those who do His will with everlasting life. (John 3:16)

That's a very human promise right there. A very human take on the carnal fear of death. What if I am satisfied with the life I have led to the full and simply wish to go into nothing?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I think it makes sense that people project human qualities, drives, and behaviors onto their gods, since they are primarily psychological projections of the human psyche.

 

[George-ananda]

This thread is about God's justice. Christians can express their vision on how God's justice operates; but even Atheists' view is welcome.

I am Pelagian. So I believe in free will, and given that we have free will, we are responsible for everything that we do in our lives. If we destroy other people's lives we can never be saved. Because our salvation doesn't depend on God.
It's we who decide our afterlife. So if we stain our soul with evil actions and incredible hatred, that's what our Afterlife will be: a prison of eternal remorse and perpetual hatred, dissatisfaction, delusion. If that's not Hell....
This is Justice. When we die, we are imprisoned in our soul; but if our soul is full of altruistic deeds, love towards the others and creativity, we will certainly enjoy a heavenly afterlife.

From the Bible:
Blessed those who thirst and hunger for justice, for they will be satisfied.

And an Angel will come forth, and will sever the wicked from among the just.

I don't believe in an eternal hell. It is not compatible with Divine justice in my mind. This life is too short to judge eternity on.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't believe in an eternal hell. It is not compatible with Divine justice in my mind. This life is too short to judge eternity on.

Well...the problem is that people expect mercy when they hurt the others. And they want complete revenge when they are hurt by them.
The Bible says: "If you don't want an eternal punishment, don't hurt anyone, then." I don't think it's that difficult.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think it makes sense that people project human qualities, drives, and behaviors onto their gods, since they are primarily psychological projections of the human psyche.

Well...justice is universal because everyone wants justice.
The problem is that people want justice when they are the victims of something terrible.
But when they are the perpetrators, they expect mercy and forgiveness. This is inconsequential and contradictory. I think this derives from the incapability of man to understand that we all are equal, and that we all deserve the same things. The most devilish thing is thinking that our life is more valuable than the others' life.
We must desire the neighbor's happiness as much as we desire ours.
So, if I kill a person, I would accept an eternal punishment, because I deserve to pay for what I did. Because if someone killed me, I probably would want the same treatment for the perpetrator.

 

[Desert Snake]

It is not, indeed. It's an intuition, but I'm quite sure that some people could agree with me.

Ok, I'll reword that. It seems oddly harsh and unforgiving. Like some fatalist version of morality.

 

[Estro Felino]

Ok, I'll reword that. It seems oddly harsh and unforgiving. Like some fatalist version of morality.

Well...given that there is free will, forgiveness doesn't depend on us. There are crimes that are unforgivable; when you are in the afterlife, you aren't capable of forgiving yourself, if you ruined other people's life. That's Hell.
So eternal remorse is the consequence of our actions and our free will.

The problem is that the perpetrator is not able to empathize with the victim. So the perpetrator expects mercy when he hurts the others. But when he's the victim, he wants revenge.
Justice is getting what you give.

 

[Susanpalli,JW]

Define 'wicked' what are the operations of 'wicked'?

I am wearing mixed fibers. Is that wicked?



And if I refuse to recognise his authority?


That's a very human promise right there. A very human take on the carnal fear of death. What if I am satisfied with the life I have led to the full and simply wish to go into nothing?

Wicked is another word for evil and designates one in opposition to God. Examples of evil acts are willfully cheating, stealing, killing, etc.

If you refuse his authority, God will be hurt and sad.(Genesis 6:5-6)

Of course that is your decision. God doesn't force anyone to listen to him. (Deuteronomy 30:19)

 

[Estro Felino]

Define 'wicked' what are the operations of 'wicked'?

Wickedness is when you consider the others less valuable than you; so you don't care about hurting them.

What if I am satisfied with the life I have led to the full and simply wish to go into nothing?

Because Heaven is not a reward. It's not a prize. In the afterlife, you will get what you've given. So if you've given love, altruism, kindness, what are you afraid of?
You will be continuing to experience this positivity and satisfaction.

 

[George-ananda]

And they want complete revenge when they are hurt by them.

That type of thinking doesn't come from the example of Jesus' attitude when he was being nailed to the cross. He forgave.