Division between those who want religion / any belief to simplify the world vs. complicate it

[amorphous_constellation]

It occurred to me a moment ago, that one either rests on a belief to relax some of the uncertainty, or one wants 'greater' answers from it. And this would apply to both a religion, and areas more toward atheism. It either allows you to complicate what you thought was simple, or make simpler what you thought was complicated

Since this only occurred to me a moment ago, I haven't had time to think much more about this... any thoughts?

 

[Heyo]

It occurred to me a moment ago, that one either rests on a belief to relax some of the uncertainty, or one wants 'greater' answers from it. And this would apply to both a religion, and areas more toward atheism. It either allows you to complicate what you thought was simple, or make simpler what you thought was complicated

Since this only occurred to me a moment ago, I haven't had time to think much more about this... any thoughts?

"There is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

Humans want explanations for the world around them, it gives them a feeling of being in control. Simple minds like simple solutions they can understand, less simple minds accept less simple explanations, as long as they are within their capacity to understand.
So, basically the same.
We all want a theory we can understand, only the level of understanding is different.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Humans want explanations for the world around them, it gives them a feeling of being in control.

Yes.. and whoever went through life never wanting an explanation for anything. And yet in a way, I sometimes feel like people also head in that direction.

 

[osgart]

It occurred to me a moment ago, that one either rests on a belief to relax some of the uncertainty, or one wants 'greater' answers from it. And this would apply to both a religion, and areas more toward atheism. It either allows you to complicate what you thought was simple, or make simpler what you thought was complicated

Since this only occurred to me a moment ago, I haven't had time to think much more about this... any thoughts?

Metaphysical beliefs are based off things that are evident in nature. Some of those appear to be stronger intuitions that people expect more answers from. Naturalism recognizes that most useful knowledge and information comes from observing the behaviors of natural processes, and applying math and logic to testing those behaviors. However I don't think science nor religion can ever get any ultimate intrinsic explanations as to the nature of existence.

Naturalism is a metaphysical belief system that will probably never get at the fundamental nature of existence. How something behaves is not why it behaves that way. Why always goes further than can be reached. Without knowing the rules of the game logic/math are just guesses in the dark. So beliefs really happen to people without being contrived, or forced into their acceptance.

Belief is not a choice to be made.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

How something behaves is not why it behaves that way.

Though it seems like action and purpose do sometimes relate to one another

So beliefs really happen to people without being contrived, or forced into their acceptance.

Belief is not a choice to be made.

You've lost me a little bit. Every state you have, you believe in something. A mixture of doubt and faith, sometimes with more doubt, sometimes with more faith - maybe that explains this

 

[Pawpatrol]

I'm not sure I understand.

But Islam has definitely made everything simpler for me. I was lost before it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

"There is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

^ Close ...

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." [source]​

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Naturalism is a metaphysical belief system that will probably never get at the fundamental nature of existence.

But, due to its kinship with intersubjective verifiability, it will invalidate a good deal of crap.

 

[osgart]

Though it seems like action and purpose do sometimes relate to one another

It definitely seems that way sometimes in regards to the natural world.

You've lost me a little bit. Every state you have, you believe in something. A mixture of doubt and faith, sometimes with more doubt, sometimes with more faith - maybe that explains this

Depending on how a person experiences things, and the quality of information one collects throughout life beliefs just happen to people regardless of whether they want them or not.

I mean if all I ever experienced was the Bible, and knew nothing of the outside world, I might just believe that it was true though I would never want that.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Depending on how a person experiences things, and the quality of information one collects throughout life beliefs just happen to people regardless of whether they want them or not.

I mean if all I ever experienced was the Bible, and knew nothing of the outside world, I might just believe that it was true though I would never want that.

There is probably a psychological term for what we are talking about , a sort of 'overton window of experience.' Maybe a good metaphor relates this to the deep sea fish - the weird, transparent kind that glows etc. A great example of something that seems so obviously shaped by a (very limited) environment. As to the line from the deep sea fish to us - how is that described? From a wafting piece of metabolism in the dark, to the monkey-thinker. A reaction fills its proper space, in each case. Though we be something more than the other primates, for some reason

 

[osgart]

There is probably a psychological term for what we are talking about , a sort of 'overton window of experience.' Maybe a good metaphor relates this to the deep sea fish - the weird, transparent kind that glows etc. A great example of something that seems so obviously shaped by a (very limited) environment. As to the line from the deep sea fish to us - how is that described? From a wafting piece of metabolism in the dark, to the monkey-thinker. A reaction fills its proper space, in each case. Though we be something more than the other primates, for some reason

With the ability to imagine things we can transcend our environment, or get lost in a false sense of reality. What can a barreleye possibly know? Is it that living things can only react to their environment as an only way of knowing? Or do they imagine that what they need is off in the distance?

If all needs are met, with a lot of time for other things, and the ability to do what one wishes, maybe that's when beliefs arise.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

With the ability to imagine things we can transcend our environment, or get lost in a false sense of reality. What can a barreleye possibly know? Is it that living things can only react to their environment as an only way of knowing? Or do they imagine that what they need is off in the distance?

Oh there could be something down there that knows a lot. We associate peace with straight thinking, with deep thinking. An ecology of time-traveling neuronal masses could live down there

 

[amorphous_constellation]

If all needs are met, with a lot of time for other things, and the ability to do what one wishes, maybe that's when beliefs arise.

Primates, as the ostensible seat of intelligence, might represent an odd choice. A curious creature, seeming oft not sated; anxious. Thinking for us, is a rocky process, as well as belief. Perhaps this is the point

 

[Heyo]

^ Close ...

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." [source]​

There Is Always a Well-Known Solution to Every Human Problem—Neat, Plausible, and Wrong – Quote Investigator®

Those quote collections can be unreliable at times.

[source]