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Do all hindu sect believe in the caste system?
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
No. There are many sects which reject caste system. I belong to a sect which does not believe in any kind of distinction, caste, religion, race. It does not distinguish even between humans, animals, vegetation or non-living substances. We believe whatever exists in the universe is constituted by one material (think of atoms). I follow 'Advaita' (non-duality).
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
You wrote that many sects do not believe in the caste system. Can you write here what the different sects are called?
stanberger
Active Member
the majority do ...but there idols [millions of gods] is so 10000 b c
DharmaCatLamp
Member
As @Aupmanyav said there are various sects which reject the caste system. Honestly it's mostly a relic of early indo-european decent. Supposedly coming about around 1500 bce. Some things suggest it was not quite so stratified until later on. The Buddha happens to mention things from the caste system but had Bhikkhus from every caste. Later on it would become far more of a problem eventually leading to people like Herbert Hope Risley applying his race science to it.
For me personally it's just a relic of culture. When I read any Hindu texts that mention the caste system I make a mental notation in my head and sort of move on past it. You can read plenty of stories of people moving around castes outside of India but in some areas the caste system is incredibly powerful in terms of it's effects on people. I don't think it maintains any importance over the lives of many Hindus.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4414252
4. Attitudes about caste
Indians who live in urban areas (78%) are more likely than rural Indians (69%) to say they would be willing to accept Scheduled Caste neighbors. And Indians with more education also are more likely to accept Dalit neighbors. Fully 77% of those with a college degree say they would be fine with neighbors from Scheduled Castes, while 68% of Indians with no formal education say the same.
Don't forget that Shaivism and Vaishnava traditions tend to have slightly different views on things like this. I've noticed as I have gone through my Siva sutras and Tantric books I have yet to see a single mention of caste yet when i open the Bhagavad Gita it's certainly there. It seems to a large extent attached to local area more than anything. It loses most of it's meaning outside of a south Asian context. This is of course not to say that one sect is worse than the other but there does seem to be a bit of difference. Largely I think western Hindus are capable of looking past it though.
5 reasons that caste cannot be equated with Hinduism - Hindu American Foundation
http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Dalit_Hindu_saints
You can also see here that there are Hindu saints from every caste. I don't think God/Brahman cares at all where you come from. It's a relic we need not deal with any longer if we do not wish to. But I am fortunate to not have grown up in a caste society and to be able to understand where it came from.
Tell us more about these 'millions of gods' Hindus worship!
I believe the 'caste' system has been misunderstood. The guy who thought it up would be called a sociologist today. I think he was merely postulating that for a society to function and prosper, you need groups of people with different abilities and characteristics.
You need thinkers who can analyse things and devise solutions to advise people.
You need leaders who have vision and can move people to follow their lead
You need people who can fight/defend and will faithfully follow orders
You need people who can only do 'menial' work and plod along.
If you had a society of people all with the same abilities eg. all thinkers, or all fighters etc, such a society will not prosper.
A society to prosper will need leaders, advised by thinkers, to manage fighters, to defend the society and workers to build and tend fields etc. Each 'caste' brings its capability to the group contributing to the whole. No group is greater or lesser than any other group, its just cog in the gear.
Such 'characteristics' are usually in the gene makeup of the individual so typically passed on through the genes from parent to child hence the 'concept' a thinker begets a thinker and a fighter begets a fighter etc. There will of course be exceptions.
I'm sure if you knew the ancestry of your friends, you may find evidence of such a thing.
Of course the concept has been misconstrued to mean some kind of hierarchical order of superior or inferior quality which I don't think was ever the intention.
stanberger
Active Member
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
They are in all major denominations, Vaishnavas, Shaivas, Shaktas and Advaita. For example, Natha Sampradaya (sect) of Vinayaka, Kashmir Shaivism, the Gorakhnath Sect (another Natha Sect headed by Yogi Adityanath, the Chief Minister of our largest state, Uttar Pradesh, population 220 million). do not believe in caste system. The Basava (Lingayat) sect does not believe in castes. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, who founded the Hare-Krishna philosophy also did not believe in caste system. Kabir Panth (those who follow Saint Kabir, Ravidas, etc.) and Warkaris of Maharashtra (followers of Saint Eknath) do not believe in castes. That I cannot name them all should be taken as my ignorance and not as the non-existence of these sects.
Yogi Adityanath, he is known as 'Bulldozer Baba'. He razes to ground the property of the criminals and corrupt with bulldozers.
He is 49 years of age and a probable Prime Minister of India in future.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The caste system ought to be regarded as a crime against humanity.
The caste system immobilises the exceptions, they deserve to find their rightful place in society too.
Well we may not be able to mind read intentions of dead people but in practice if they are not paid the same and having equal conditions then they are definitely heirarchially arranged.
In the caste system would a great thinker forced to work cleaning the sewers because that's what his parents did be paid the same as a ceo or great innovator?
If not your claim there is no heirarchy seems doubtworthy.
In my opinion.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
It is, by many sects of Hinduism (including Advaita, which I follow).
But why does caste system persists in India? One reason is the benefits that Indian Constitution gives to the former lower castes - 'Affirmative Action'. Affirmative Action is all pervading - facilities to former lower castes in admissions to schools and provision of books, clothes, admission to colleges and institutions of higher studies, government jobs including police and administrati0on, promotions, bank loans, and reservations in all elected bodies right from the National parliament to village level. So, the national and state cabinets have a minimum of 50% people from these sections. This was initially considered for 10 years but has now persisted for 75 years. The option is to make reservations based on economic situation of a family, but any such attempt will lead to decimation of that political party. Reservations are the India's 'Holy Cow'. Indian supreme Court has put a limit of 50% on such reservations but that is not always followed. More on reservations at Reservation in India - Wikipedia.
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I only said heirachey was not the intention when first postulated. Humans have abused the concept over time of course
Ok, but how do we know what their intentions were?
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Yeah, we know higher castes misused it. It was the usual power and pecuniary benefits.
The question can be divided in two parts. The 'Varna' system of Indo-Iranian Aryans. That was a simple division of society according to what one was doing without making it hereditary. If you were engaged in a different profession, you will be labeled differently.
The other was the 'Jati' system of the indigenous. That was a sort of 'guild' division. That was hereditary, child learning from father. In the assimilation of Indo-Aryans with the indigenous, the two systems got merged, one over the other.
So, we ended with both. First the Varna - I am a brahmin. Second, Jati, I am a Kashmiri brahmin. And then further subdivisions, Guru (priest class) or Karkun (clerical class), etc.
I guess we can never know anybodies intention. I'm merely postulating my opinion, never claiming that I am right. Just what I think.
How do you define sect?
The British influenced 'caste system' has fallen out of favor. It's now illegal, but, like racism in the US, social attitudes are hard to legislate away.
Hindus love to divide and subdivide, categorize and subcategorize. Depending how you slice and dice your preferred spirit taxonomy, you can come up with no gods, one god, three, four, or thousands.
Much depends on how you define or categorize "gods". Are all incorporeal beings gods, or just certain ones? Are gods actual beings, or just personified aspects of nature, or personified values or features?