Do American troops "defend freedom"?

[Kapalika]

Please read this article before commenting, as it is what I am responding to and essentially the best statement of the position I have. The article is somewhat long and nuanced, so please read all of it before commenting.

http://www.salon.com/2014/11/09/you...lling_soldiers_heroes_deadens_real_democracy/

The idea that any war fought in over half a century was to protect America's freedoms is sketchy at best. From the Patroit Act to the NSA scandal we have lost our freedoms and rights despite so much military action.

If anyone should be praised for defending our freedoms and rights, it's journalists and activists, it's whistle-blowers and lawyers as the article points out. Many do heroic things, but many do monstrous things too even to their fellow troops. And in either case, how can anyone in a war be a hero unless that war is heroic to begin with? Rather, the "heroic" ones of unheroic wars are victims of the war.

 

[Terese]

I think this 'freedom' thing left with the 60s. There is no major power attacking America, so its just minor skirmishes now. Oh and hello Mandi

 

[Laika]

The problem is that our understanding of heroism isn't about what these people actually do. the act of putting on a uniform itself is considered heroic, and that is a form of state-worship in that you are not revering what the state has done, but the existence of the state and the necessity of a human sacrifice. We are still stuck with a binary good versus evil understanding of political violence when the reality is much more complicated. When someone says that solders are fighting for our freedoms, it is probably one of the most perverse political statements you will ever here as the military is the single most powerful weapon in any system of dictatorship. At the top of the list of a small government libertarians job is to reduce the size of the US military, otherwise they are letting the police state off the hook. What it really means is that we equate the state with freedom and violence with heroism. We still think of ourselves as intrinsically the "good guys" no matter what we do. its a hard conversation, but one worth having.

thanks for the link.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

American troops are paid to defend American interests.

 

[BSM1]

American troops are paid to defend American interests.

Yeah? And?

 

[Father Heathen]

Yeah? And?

Clearly "american interests" don't always include "defending freedom."

 

[MARCELLO]

I do observe how americans defend freedom in the 3rd world,I would laugh at this but it won't be polite . Have you ever experimented a closure of USA embassy due to freedom challanges they encountered in 3rd world? I have just freshly come out of a USA embassy gathering,do you know that coca cola bottling factory was the winner? In the army camp here there is a church but no mosque. They say sunnnis and shias will fight each other if there is any. The only problem is that there is almost no shia here

Also keep in mind that, if somehow you are injured or fall sick in USA army base here,the first thing they will do is to take your body out of the base,so that they will not pay for penalties. The rules here do say the opposite; the patient must be taken to hospital with accompany of the hosting company,who cares about them?

 

[McBell]

American troops are paid to defend American interests.

I will agree to the above quoted statement if you put in the word I feel you left out: "Government" between the words 'American' and 'interests'.

 

[MARCELLO]

By the way what does american interests mean? Does this cover the ''sud'' america ? If not,why?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Our troops are average good young men on the whole. They are initially trained using Roman methods such as 'Boot camp' and heavily indoctrinated about defending freedom and taught the history of our country, its battles, heroes and traditions. They're taught personal hygiene, too. A lot of them are immigrants, orphans and middle or lower class. They usually join for pay, for college funding, to protect our country and often to 'Make something of themselves.' The military is an alternative career path with guaranteed pay. They are absolutely-not trained or encouraged to rape, murder or to steal, and they are court marshalled if they are caught breaking any laws. Usually they are well behaved and represent our nation's interests very honorably, but they are dangerous. They are trained to kill on command, to use swear words and fight. They are encouraged but not required to believe in God. The military appeals to the physically strong and financially weak. Just like in other countries, our sociopaths are sometimes attracted to the ranks of our military. Probably 20% of military people are sociopaths I would guess, perhaps more. They are absolutely not supposed to permit cruelty or to cause problems in the countries where we have bases. Such things should be reported, and the offenders should be court marshalled to prevent further problems. We especially do not want problem individuals to cause diplomatic problems.

 

[BSM1]

Our troops are average good young men on the whole. They are initially trained using Roman methods such as 'Boot camp' and heavily indoctrinated about defending freedom and taught the history of our country, its battles, heroes and traditions. They're taught personal hygiene, too. A lot of them are immigrants, orphans and middle or lower class. They usually join for pay, for college funding, to protect our country and often to 'Make something of themselves.' The military is an alternative career path with guaranteed pay. They are absolutely-not trained or encouraged to rape, murder or to steal, and they are court marshalled if they are caught breaking any laws. Usually they are well behaved and represent our nation's interests very honorably, but they are dangerous. They are trained to kill on command, to use swear words and fight. They are encouraged but not required to believe in God. The military appeals to the physically strong and financially weak. Just like in other countries, our sociopaths are sometimes attracted to the ranks of our military. Probably 20% of military people are sociopaths I would guess, perhaps more. They are absolutely not supposed to permit cruelty or to cause problems in the countries where we have bases. Such things should be reported, and the offenders should be court marshalled to prevent further problems. We especially do not want problem individuals to cause diplomatic problems.

I think 20% is a little high. The rank and file tend to weed themselves of the really crazy.

 

[Kapalika]

Our troops are average good young men on the whole. They are initially trained using Roman methods such as 'Boot camp' and heavily indoctrinated about defending freedom and taught the history of our country, its battles, heroes and traditions. They're taught personal hygiene, too. A lot of them are immigrants, orphans and middle or lower class. They usually join for pay, for college funding, to protect our country and often to 'Make something of themselves.' The military is an alternative career path with guaranteed pay. They are absolutely-not trained or encouraged to rape, murder or to steal, and they are court marshalled if they are caught breaking any laws. Usually they are well behaved and represent our nation's interests very honorably, but they are dangerous. They are trained to kill on command, to use swear words and fight. They are encouraged but not required to believe in God. The military appeals to the physically strong and financially weak. Just like in other countries, our sociopaths are sometimes attracted to the ranks of our military. Probably 20% of military people are sociopaths I would guess, perhaps more. They are absolutely not supposed to permit cruelty or to cause problems in the countries where we have bases. Such things should be reported, and the offenders should be court marshalled to prevent further problems. We especially do not want problem individuals to cause diplomatic problems.

I think the part that is really concerning though at least internally is the cover ups and whistle blowers being punished. Or that very few want to talk about all the rape within the military against each other. Stuff like that

 

[esmith]

i consider the source of the article and have only one response......bull****

 

[McBell]

Please read this article before commenting, as it is what I am responding to and essentially the best statement of the position I have. The article is somewhat long and nuanced, so please read all of it before commenting.

http://www.salon.com/2014/11/09/you...lling_soldiers_heroes_deadens_real_democracy/

The idea that any war fought in over half a century was to protect America's freedoms is sketchy at best. From the Patroit Act to the NSA scandal we have lost our freedoms and rights despite so much military action.

If anyone should be praised for defending our freedoms and rights, it's journalists and activists, it's whistle-blowers and lawyers as the article points out. Many do heroic things, but many do monstrous things too even to their fellow troops. And in either case, how can anyone in a war be a hero unless that war is heroic to begin with? Rather, the "heroic" ones of unheroic wars are victims of the war.

My problem with the article is that he is presenting the exception as the norm then attacking all the military over it.

 

[YmirGF]

My problem with the article is that he is presenting the exception as the norm then attacking all the military over it.

Pretty typical of Salon.com. Most of their readers wouldn't really notice as it plays into existing narratives.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I think the part that is really concerning though at least internally is the cover ups and whistle blowers being punished. Or that very few want to talk about all the rape within the military against each other. Stuff like that

I agree. The public needs to have a well rounded realistic understanding. Don't say 'Stuff like that' to me in that belittling tone of voice or I'll put you over my knee!

 

[freethinker44]

The military defends freedom in the sense that the best defense is a good offense, but if you're strictly asking if the military directly defends freedom, then no. Indirectly, yes.

 

[roger1440]

American troops are paid to defend American interests.

You would be surprised how little they get paid. The money end of it has very little why men and women join the American armed services.

 

[Aquitaine]

I will agree to the above quoted statement if you put in the word I feel you left out: "Government" between the words 'American' and 'interests'.

Personally I would put "Government" and "Corporate", it seems to be a mixture of the two.

 

[Valjean]

Interesting article. I'm largely in agreement, with one or two reservations.

American troops are paid to defend American interests.

I'm reminded of Calvin Coolidge's "The business of America, is business."

I will agree to the above quoted statement if you put in the word I feel you left out: "Government" between the words 'American' and 'interests'.

But, to an increasing extent, both 'the government' and the military are becoming subsidiaries of corporate interests.

i consider the source of the article and have only one response......bull****

Care to expand?