Do animals have more value than Muslims or i'm just being delusional?

[TashaN]

I started a thread in the debating area to know how people would react toward treating dogs badly then shooting them. It was so interesting to see that, when people knew that it was an analogy to what was happening in Gaza, they directly switched from sympathy to a totally different attitude. I expected it but i was counting on some fair people to speak and i could count some.

I'm not that naive, i know that the topic of Israel and Palestine became so boring for many people who live in the West and America and some might have feelings for one of the parties, but the reaction i got was really stunning and i didn't imagine that the gap would be that huge between treating dogs and treating human beings.

This is the thread i have started about Animals vs. Human beings "Muslims+Arabs".

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-debates/74543-these-dogs-we-had-shoot-them.html

Note that, the posters had absolutely no idea that i was talking about Gaza till i gave them three links which you can find in my post # 12 in that thread except one of them.

There is a thread discussing the situation in Gaza already in this thread below:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/middle-eastern-politics/74544-israel-attacks-gaza-strip.html

So, Muslims, what do you all think?

Am i just imagining things?

And please, i don't need bashing any country here either it is USA or Israel, because there is already a thread dealing with Gaza issue in the political area. I'm mostly concerned here with how people in the West look at Muslims, and what is affecting their judgment?!

Even if some of them prefer to support one of the parties (i.e. Israel) how do you explain people not caring enough for innocent Palestinians of old people, women and children being killed by the dozen, but caring for one single child highlighted extensively by their media?

Are most of people in the West really driven by media and nothing but their media?

How much do they trust Muslims reporters and Muslims point of view?

Again, no bashing is allowed here, i'm just trying to find some good answers for real.

Guys, don't forget, i want Muslims only to reply to this thread. Those who want to voice their opinion but are not Muslims can use the thread i have started to do so.

Thank you all.

 

[jamaesi]

It's not that people don't support Muslims or Arabs or Palestinians, it's that people generally do not support terrorist groups.

When Muslims here yammer on about Hamas and the Taliban being good groups, well, how do you think people will react?

 

[Magic Man]

Do animals have more value than Muslims or i'm just being delusional?

You're apparently delusional. As I just explained in that thread, it's not that I don't care about people being killed, but I would need so much more information to get interested in that thread that it's not worth it. I tune out when I start to hear anything about the Gaza Strip or any situation in that area. It's groups of people fighting over stupid stuff. Both sides are mist likely wrong to some degree. There are plenty of other atrocities going on, and I can't keep up with all of them.

When it was personal story, I was interested, but when it became about another situation entirely, you lost me. If you personally had killed people instead of dogs, I would have responded the same way I did initially.

 

[TashaN]

It's not that people don't support Muslims or Arabs or Palestinians, it's that people generally do not support terrorist groups.

When Muslims here yammer on about Hamas and the Taliban being good groups, well, how do you think people will react?

That's a good start. That's one of the strongest excuses Israel use to target Gaza and it's not entirely true because Palestinians were being killed even before Hamas was ever born. I heard many people saying the same thing, and i'm aware of this issue, but did you notice some of my others questions like ...

Even if some of them prefer to support one of the parties (i.e. Israel) how do you explain people not caring enough for innocent Palestinians of old people, women and children being killed by the dozen, but caring for one single child highlighted extensively by their media?

 

[TashaN]

You're apparently delusional. As I just explained in that thread, it's not that I don't care about people being killed, but I would need so much more information to get interested in that thread that it's not worth it. I tune out when I start to hear anything about the Gaza Strip or any situation in that area. It's groups of people fighting over stupid stuff. Both sides are mist likely wrong to some degree. There are plenty of other atrocities going on, and I can't keep up with all of them.

When it was personal story, I was interested, but when it became about another situation entirely, you lost me. If you personally had killed people instead of dogs, I would have responded the same way I did initially.

Ok, i started this thread before seeing your post there. I hope we will continue there because i need Muslims only to reply here, sorry.

I understand from your reply here and there now that you would care more if it was something personal, something you can fully be aware of, not a complicated political situation, thank you.

 

[Magic Man]

I understand from your reply here and there now that you would care more if it was something personal, something you can fully be aware of, not a complicated political situation, thank you.

That's it exactly. I'm sorry for posting here, I didn't realize this was in the DIR.

 

[jamaesi]

That's a good start. That's one of the strongest excuses Israel use to target Gaza and it's not entirely true because Palestinians were being killed even before Hamas was ever born. I heard many people saying the same thing, and i'm aware of this issue, but did you notice some of my others questions like ...

Even if some of them prefer to support one of the parties (i.e. Israel) how do you explain people not caring enough for innocent Palestinians of old people, women and children being killed by the dozen, but caring for one single child highlighted extensively by their media?

Yes, before Hamas was even born there were still people doing about the same thing Hamas is now.

And for your other question, it's just people's lack of understanding of the whole issue and some confusion that all Palestinians/Muslims/Arabs/what have you are terrorists... given the overwhelming support given to terrorist scum by most of the Muslims on this forum, you can't really blame people for thinking that.

Might want to start cleaning your house before you demand others do the same.

 

[TashaN]

And for your other question, it's just people's lack of understanding of the whole issue and some confusion that all Palestinians/Muslims/Arabs/what have you are terrorists...

including innocent people like old people, women, and children?

 

[jamaesi]

including innocent people like old people, women, and children?

Did you read past what you selectively quoted?

 

[TashaN]

Did you read past what you selectively quoted?

Care to point it out for me?

 

[.lava]

hi TashaN, i can't say you're deluded. if you search internet you'd see there are callings to all religious paths to unite against Muslims and Islam. world's greatest powers want to take land from Muslims for many reasons. therefor they are continuously doing propaganda; such as Qur'an is a satanic book, our Prophet was insane (hasha), all the Muslims are potential terrorists, source of terror is Islam, even if a Muslim is peaceful he would eventually kill you, Muslims want to kill you all, Muslims killed this and that, we have to get rid of Muslims if we want a peaceful world...the worst part is that is gonna happen. WWIII is on the corner my friend. before it was over Western societies would not be able to see what's really going on. because they are against violence which is fine but they support their governments who knowingly target innocent millions as in Iraq. only when it is over, manipulation would be over too and they would see who was really satanic power of this world.

.

 

[Peace]

The heart gets really sick of what's happening to the Muslims... oppression, misconceptions....I wonder if people are blind or just the media is brainwashing them and making them blind and indifferent to what's happening. The media is just twisting facts and makes the oppressor looks like the oppressed and vice versa.
What can we say but "hasbona Lah wa ni`ma al wakil", we have no resort but to Allah to whom we turn for support, guidance and help.

Gaza is in our hearts and prayers...​

 

[.lava]

The heart gets really sick of what's happening to the Muslims... oppression, misconceptions....I wonder if people are blind or just the media is brainwashing them and making them blind and indifferent to what's happening. The media is just twisting facts and makes the oppressor looks like the oppressed and vice versa.
What can we say but "hasbona Lah wa ni`ma al wakil", we have no resort but to Allah to whom we turn for support, guidance and help.

Gaza is in our hearts and prayers...​

some blinded and most of the facts are covered by biased media. but there are some, dear Peace, who know the truth about Islam very well even some claims that they have the original Bible which tells about Mohammad (PBUH) and they knowingly hide it.

Palestinian that killed by Israel 50% women and children. Israelis say they hit Hamas alone but it is a lie. they even hit a hospital. our governments try not to get involved but our publics are aware. i am sorry to say that 2009 and 2010 would be difficult years. Western leaders say Israel has right to defend itself. Livni says that they want decent life for their citizens. hear that? decent. there are nearly 400 deads. now they try to get journalists out of Gaza so they can continue this murder in comfort with their tank from the ground. thy also ordered their zionist photographer who work for media to take some 'humane' photos so that way they would try to calm people down. what wicked game to play. i feel sorry for all of us, for Muslims and for Jews. they forced destiny, but destiny did not respond yet. so they are spoiled. i feel sorry for them.

.

 

[Peace]

Last night while going through my daily reading of the Quran I read the following verses in chapter 2 and wanted to share it with you especially for what we are undergoing these days:

139. So do not become weak (against your enemy), nor be sad, and you will be superior (in victory) if you are indeed (true) believers.
140. If a wound (and killing) has touched you, be sure a similar wound (and killing) has touched the others. And so are the days (good and not so good), We give to men by turns, that Allah may test those who believe, and that He may take martyrs from among you. And Allah likes not the Zalimun (the wrong-doers).
141. And that Allah may test (or purify) the believers (from sins) and destroy the disbelievers.
142. Do you think that you will enter Paradise before Allah tests those of you who fought (in His Cause) and (also) tests those who are As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.)?
143. You did indeed wish for death (Ash-Shahadah - martyrdom) before you met it. Now you have seen it openly with your own eyes.

 

[TashaN]

**MOD POST**

This is the Islam DIR. Please read the OP and the DIR rules before posting. So, several posts have been deleted for this time, but further actions will be implemented the next time DIR rules are being violated.​

 

[LuisDantas]

In answer to the OP:

I don't think it is a fair comparison, although I think I can see the point and I can only assume that this is a very sore subject matter to you and many others.

However, it is still true that dogs are assumed to be basically powerless against armed humans. That may or may not be true of palestinians and others, but it is hard to simply forget about the bombings, fundamentalist threats and AK-47s. I do recognize that Israel is hardly blameless, mind you. But for whatever their justifications or even utter lack of choice, it is simply not fair to compare Muslims that can and at least occasionally do fight back with dogs that simply can't.

I'm not at all claiming that the media and politicians' claims about the situation are fair or accurate, mind you. In fact, I very much doubt so. But your comparison is hardly any better, sorry.

I personally don't like Israel's politics and military stances at all. I actually suspect that they are creating most of their own conflicts out of lack of humility and consideration for other people.

Still, one can't help but wonder what would happen if the more violent groups of Muslim sympathies didn't have the formidable Israeli military to oppose them. To some extent Israel motivates them, of course, but peaceful lambs they are not, and it is worrying to see so little and ineffective internal opposition to them in the Muslim world. Let's not forget that it were the neighbor countries that invaded Israel hours after its formal creation, not the opposite.

 

[Supergate]

intolerance must not be tolerated.

008.055
Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve...

 

[Functionless]

I think people assume that non-human animals are innocent while human animals are guilty.

 

[Functionless]

Also, the problem with Israel/Gaza is that its difficult for Westerners to understand what is going on and more difficult to care because we always hear stories about how people are killing each other over there and it does, at some point, become a blur that the mind ignores as it scans the daily stories. Knowing that how the media reports it is biased is discouraging. Also, it is the one political issue that, when I was in high school and talking to students and teachers about politics, we absolutely could not discuss. We could talk about anything but Israel/Palestine. Its not that we are bad people, but the issue is such a pain and drives at the heart of social, religious, political, and economic view points that its usually not worth bringing up unless you want to really get into it.

 

[Sahar]

You're not delusional. The shoes they wear have more value than Muslims' lives. The reason behind this is Muslims themselves. The American soldier who dies in Iraq has a huge value because his country gave him this value. Or even the Israeli soldier, we always hear 40 Palestinians were killed and on the other hand one Israeli soldier was killed. 40 killed Palestinians?! Huh!! Who cares?! Because their people (i.e Muslims especially Arabs) don't care about them, why would we expect the others to care I don't understand!!

We shouldn't expect that the West somehow cares about the human beings and lives in the other parts of the globe, no. What they care about is their interests only.