Do atheists believe in magnetism?

[Truth in love]

What sort of "iron fillings" do you suggest we use to demonstrate this divine communication?

There are a lot of approaches suggested in various belief systems.

sometimes something simple like mediation, prayer or reading sacred texts and observing how you feel.

 

[Truth in love]

Because this can't be consistently repeated by independent observers it does not operate like scientific theory and application or even magnets.

If I called on your god hundreds of times (I actually did as a child) and got no results either your god does not exist or is not actively involved with certain individuals.

If I do an experiment with magnetism it gives results 100% of the time, in any language, in any culture, anywhere I decide to repeat the experiment.

It does when the conditions are the same. If you have many different sets of conditions you will get different results.

 

[Twilight Hue]

A common sentiment from atheists is that they won’t believe in things that can’t be shown.

We cannot see it, we can’t touch it. In the case of electromagnetic devices it is not always there. Yet one can observe its effects being inline with a given theory.

So is it believed in?

No because magnetism is a tactile property that you can physically manipulate, so you know it's actually there.

You cannot do that with a belief in a deity.

 

[Truth in love]

Can you see the air around you? Yet, you breathe it in an out every moment of your life. (I could show some ways to see it, but mostly, you don't). Do you believe in it?

Human senses are limited: we "see" a tiny portion of the electro-magnetic spectrum, we hear quite a limited range (20 to 18,000 hertz) of the range of sound available to us. Dogs and cats hear much more, insects "see" far higher in the EM spectrum than we do.

BUT! We humans are quite bright -- we've invented ways to detect what our own senses can't perceive, through our instruments. And thus -- what's not to believe? Actually -- what has "belief" to do with it at all?

And even more curious -- what the heck does "atheism" have to do with it?

1. Belief occurred before we made the device to see stuff. If we did not think there was more to see we would not have put in the effort to look. Before beloved in the Higgs long before it was found.


What I find odd is the often hostile attitude towards things people believe while accepting many things that we can’t see, hear etc.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What is different?
When set conditions are met an electromagnet exerts an invisible power to impact life as we know it. This is widely accepted, but God communicating or helping man is not???

If people are routinely healed, the dead comes back, people can hear and communicate directly etc. You might have a point then.

 

[F1fan]

So how do you decide what conditions for the test are valid or not?
A light bulb is very reliable when connected to power. When not it does not work.

So when the 9-11 hijackers flew planes into buildings because they were doing God's will, do you think that is a satisfactory and successful test that the god of Abraham really exists?

I mean these 19 guys died for God, so they must have been completely convinced. For me to be convinced to that degree God would have to appear personally. So should we assume these guys had excellent evidence that the rest of us don't?

How do you explain these men doing God's will? Does it convince you?

 

[ppp]

What is different?
When set conditions are met an electromagnet exerts an invisible power to impact life as we know it. This is widely accepted, but God communicating or helping man is not???

Nobody tries to get me to accept that magnetism is real by handing me a 2000+ year set of bronze age writings, then tells me to read about a bunch of guys shouting about how great magnetism is and how I must worship it or else.

If someone wants me to accept magnetism, they stick a magnet to my fridge. Or they hand me a 6V spring top battery, a length of wire, and a nail. Like my dad did when I was 4. Which is also when I started going to Sunday School. If there was 1/1000th and weighty evidence for any god as there is for electromagnets, I would still believe that some god exists.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What is different?
When set conditions are met an electromagnet exerts an invisible power to impact life as we know it. This is widely accepted, but God communicating or helping man is not???

Here is a hint, there is reliable evidence for one and no reliable evidence at all for the other.

 

[Subduction Zone]

1. Belief occurred before we made the device to see stuff. If we did not think there was more to see we would not have put in the effort to look. Before beloved in the Higgs long before it was found.


What I find odd is the often hostile attitude towards things people believe while accepting many things that we can’t see, hear etc.

That is because magnets do not go around telling people to do evil things because a god said to. People that believe in religions do it quite frequently. I have a feeling that you have done it too.

When people do evil things that tends to get other people mad.

 

[LuisDantas]

What is different?

Two important things.

There is no clear understanding of what would a deity make. And in part for that reason, there is no clear test that could be made to falsify the hypothesis either.

When set conditions are met an electromagnet exerts an invisible power to impact life as we know it. This is widely accepted, but God communicating or helping man is not???

Yes, that is exactly it.

You can point out that there are deities that are known to exist if you want, though. They do exist, but they aren't often brought up in this kind of discussion.

Haile Selassie - King, God or Redeemer?

Prince Philip movement - Wikipedia

Cargo cult - Wikipedia

I am not kidding. I truly think that it can be interesting to consider why they are usually not brought up at this point in this kind of discussion.

 

[LuisDantas]

1. Belief occurred before we made the device to see stuff. If we did not think there was more to see we would not have put in the effort to look. Before beloved in the Higgs long before it was found.

It is more properly called a hypothesis. Something to be tested and delimited, or perhaps discarded entirely if a more reliable hypothesis or explanation is found.

Belief is something else entirely. Particularly belief in the literal existence of some kind of deity.

What I find odd is the often hostile attitude towards things people believe while accepting many things that we can’t see, hear etc.

Those are two very different situations.

God-beliefs, particularly when presented as something important and/or worth of special recognition, often must be challenged lest them be used as justification for undue privilege or abuse.

While our cultures tend not to mention or consider the responsibility of belief, that is a very real and very necessary moral duty. I look forward to the day (hopefully soon) when we fully embrace it as a major cultural value, to be nurtured, taught, valued and developed.

The situation regarding wind, magnetism, gravity and other concepts is entirely different. Those are forces and events that can be demonstrated to exist, even if it may require some form of tool or experiment.

"God" does not fit that mold at all. It is not even established whether it would hate LGBIQ+ or love it if it did exist. How could it even be tested for existence?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

A common sentiment from atheists is that they won’t believe in things that can’t be shown.

Like justice? Nah...I think you mean many atheists are materialists. Not the same thing.

We cannot see it, we can’t touch it. In the case of electromagnetic devices it is not always there. Yet one can observe its effects being inline with a given theory.

So is it believed in?

Do you really think there are a whole swathe of atheists completely ignoring science and not believing in magnetism? Or is this just...well...I'm not sure really.

What is this?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There are a lot of approaches suggested in various belief systems.

sometimes something simple like mediation, prayer or reading sacred texts and observing how you feel.

That's not something I can demonstrate to others though, especially not in the way you can place a sheet of paper over a magnet, dump iron filings on the paper, and the iron fillings will move to where the magnetic field pulls them.

 

[Willamena]

A common sentiment from atheists is that they won’t believe in things that can’t be shown.

I doubt that. Many atheists believe in atoms.

We cannot see it, we can’t touch it. In the case of electromagnetic devices it is not always there. Yet one can observe its effects being inline with a given theory.

So is it believed in?

Truth is believed in.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So how do you decide what conditions for the test are valid or not?
A light bulb is very reliable when connected to power. When not it does not work.

Hence why we used to call them electric lightbulbs. But that's understood now, as are many other things we used to put electric in front of.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Truth is believed in.

I do not believe like magnetic charges repel while opposite charges attract. I know this will happen each and every time. This is a fact, it is truth.
We believe our car may start when we next go to use it because that's what typically happens, but we also know various things can cause it to not start. So we believe it will start because we simply do not know for sure that it will. This is a fact, and it is truth.

 

[Willamena]

I do not believe like magnetic charges repel while opposite charges attract. I know this will happen each and every time. This is a fact, it is truth.
We believe our car may start when we next go to use it because that's what typically happens, but we also know various things can cause it to not start. So we believe it will start because we simply do not know for sure that it will. This is a fact, and it is truth.

Knowledge requires belief. Epistemology (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

What you describe with the car example is induction, not belief or knowledge. The Problem of Induction (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

 

[JIMMY12345]

Atheists don't believe in gravity either. Never seen it. Never fell out of an airplane or off a building, so I'm not convinced.

Some Scientists' dispute Gravity exists.

 

[stvdv]

What is different?
When set conditions are met an electromagnet exerts an invisible power to impact life as we know it. This is widely accepted, but God communicating or helping man is not???

God communicating and helping man is a fact. But Atheists have never experienced this, hence their "lack of belief". It's as simple as that

I can't blame them, because I also find it hard to trust and belief people and God.

After I finished my engineer degree, I decided "Engineer study took me 5 years, so God study is of course not as easy, hence I decided to dedicate 10 years of my life to it; so for almost '24/7' I immersed myself in Spiritual life".

By His Grace He provided me with many proofs during these 10 years, so now I know. But not all have the time or dedication to do this.

I didn't get my proof by demanding proof without doing the prescribed needed sadhana (spiritual practices). It was really hard work, but also fun, and I am grateful for this opportunity I got and took

 

[ppp]

God communicating and helping man is a fact. But Atheists have never experienced this, hence their "lack of belief". It's as simple as that

Or more likely, atheists have indeed experienced what you believe to be God, but are not convinced that your explanation for that experience is justified.