Do Atheists get into heaven?

[Ceridwen018]

teapot,

Encouraged them to live a just life. But they don't clearly interpret the message and realize it's from you.

If it is clear that the person is not understanding these supposedly blatant 'signs and messages' then they should be forgiven more than ever. It is he who recognizes the signs as being of god, and then decides to disregard them who should be given a closer examination.

If you can just ask forgiveness in the afterlife whats the purpose of doing good here on earth if you can just be forgiven.

If you can just ask for forgiveness while you're alive, then what's the purpose of doing good? It seems that the idea of post-mortem reconciliation is not so outlandish after all...

Luke,

Just answer the question. :lol:

Haha i'm joking, but seriously-- is not god's mercy supposed to transcend all others?

 

[teapot_tall_and_yummy]

Ceridwen-

God's signs are flipping everywhere and they're pretty blatant. Every good thing in your life is a sign from god.

Forgiveness in this life is different because it's LIFE. this is where you make the mistakes, therefore this is where you're forgiven for them.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

If I loved my children, I would forgive them as soon as they repented, no matter how long it took....there are no time limits on love. Reread the prodigal son story, you'll get what I mean.

 

[martha dodge]

But could you forget what they had done? I seriously doubt it and that is just what Father God does. He forgets as well and He never brings it up again. And Jesus says no one is good but Father God.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Yes, I could forget something as trivial as not being aware of my existence/that Jesus was divine, especially when I myself did not imbue my children with this knowledge. My ego isn't that huge. Besides, I thought you said that God does not forgive the repentant atheist in the afterlife. Have you given second thoughts to this?

 

[Ceridwen018]

teapot,

Why is every good thing a sign from god, but every bad thing not? Jack the Ripper was thought to be Prince Charles (I'm pretty sure it was Charles...whatever Prince was kickin' it at that time). He could do horrible things at night under his disguise, and still remain 'blameless' in his public life. This is how I think I'm begining to see the relationship between satan and god.

Martha,

All of the traits being applied to god right now--forgiving, forgetting, etc.-- are human actions. Therefore, don't you think it is perfectly possible for a human to perform them, and therefore perhaps be just as merciful as god?

Also, isn't Jesus god? So for Jesus to say that god is all good is circular reasoning, is it not?

 

[harold e. rice]

Have you considered how confusing it would be if Father God took on so many different names? Since Jesus refers to satan as the author of confusion, don't you think it is possible that he confused many people and caused all these other names to be given to the Creator, causing them to believe falsly. You see, the reason I asked was because Moses was so adamant about getting a name from Almighty God to take to the Hebrews in Egypt. And Father God was so definite with Abraham about who He was.

In the Bible God is called by many names which describe different facets of His nature, attributes, and character. A few of the Old Testament names for God and their meanings are:

El-Elyon, "The Most High God",

Jehovah-Jirah, "The Lord will provide",

Jehovah-Shalom, "The Lord of Peace",

El-Shaddai, "The Almighty God".

Elohim, It occurs 2,570 times in the Old Testament.

Jehovah (Yahweh), this name for God is used c. 6,823 times in the Old Testament.

and Adonai, this word is used more than 300 times in the Old Testament as a designation for God.

It seems like God took on many names during the Old Testament days.

Is there a difference?

 

[Ceridwen018]

And what is in a name anyway? How is someone worshiping falsly just because they call god by a different name, or follow a slightly different set of rules provided by a slightly different book? Shouldn't it be about what's in your heart? As long as you've got the basic ideas down, shouldn't that be what truly matters?

 

[dls0008]

And what is in a name anyway? How is someone worshiping falsly just because they call god by a different name, or follow a slightly different set of rules provided by a slightly different book? Shouldn't it be about what's in your heart? As long as you've got the basic ideas down, shouldn't that be what truly matters?

Slightly different book? If you believe that the Bible is NOT the inspired word of God, then this discussion is pointless. :killme:
Both sides are using the Bible to bolster their own views.
The Bible clearly states that you should not worship any other gods and it gives a clear explanation of the path to Heaven. It also says that no one should add to or take away from the Bible. So worshiping a different God, using books that clearly go against what the Bible teaches would tell me that you do not have the basics down according to the God of the Bible. I guess it comes down to what you believe about the Bible. If you don't believe it is from God, then why are you worrying about being included in what it describes? I certainly could care less what other "books" or someone elses god say about my future.

 

[Ceridwen018]

dls0008,

Alright, good points.

"So worshiping a different God, using books that clearly go against what the Bible teaches would tell me that you do not have the basics down according to the God of the Bible."

What about worshipping the same god under a different name, with a book that has all of the same moral principles, etc. of the bible? Aka, Allah and the Q'ran.

Obviously, using a book that clearly goes against the bible would also be going against the bible's basic principles, but have you noticed that in the issue of morality, the holy books of today's major religions actually seem to agree?

 

[harold e. rice]

Slightly different book? If you believe that the Bible is NOT the inspired word of God, then this discussion is pointless. :killme:
Both sides are using the Bible to bolster their own views.
The Bible clearly states that you should not worship any other gods and it gives a clear explanation of the path to Heaven. It also says that no one should add to or take away from the Bible. So worshiping a different God, using books that clearly go against what the Bible teaches would tell me that you do not have the basics down according to the God of the Bible. I guess it comes down to what you believe about the Bible. If you don't believe it is from God, then why are you worrying about being included in what it describes? I certainly could care less what other "books" or someone elses god say about my future.[/quote]

I don't believe that the bible is the inspired or breathed word of God simply because there are too many passages included in the bible that came from other sources. There are passages that came from writing out of Egypt, Mesopotamia, Persia, sayings from Buddha, Chrishna and many other cultures. If you have ever studied World Mythology, you can easily see how the stories in the bible run parallel to ancient mythology.

In Ex 34:14 it reads "For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:"

But in Ex 20:3 it read "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Which lets me know that it is okay to have other Gods as long as the Hebrew God is number one (The Big God).

YOU SAID "It also says that no one should add to or take away from the Bible."

You must remember that this verse was added years later after the bible was assembled as a book. The writer of Revelations had no idea that what he wrote would appear at the end of a book called the bible. That statement wasn't part of the original text. I was told this during my visit to the Isle of Patmos three years ago.

Most Christians don't realize that most of their symbols, rituals, dogmas, and writings came from so called pagan books and cultures.

If the bible came from God and he is suppose to be perfect, there would be no errors or contradictions within the covers of the book.

 

[martha dodge]

as dls008 said this whole discussion is pointless. I don't care what you think about my Bible, I believe it and you really only want to argue so all this is truly and exercise in futility. I hate exercise. I quit the class.

 

[Lightkeeper]

Harold is correct. If you take the Bible as metaphor and consider that heaven is within it makes perfect sense. There is no gain without pain. One question might be, if Atheists don't believe that heaven is within, will they ever find it?

 

[true blood]

No where in the Scriptures does it state "heaven" is within a person. It does however refer to heaven as being any place above the earth, the abode of clouds, stars, space, God and his angels. What scripture backs up the idea that there is an analogy?

 

[Ceridwen018]

Do you guys believe that heaven is a physical place (and hell too)? I mean, if it's not, how can it be up or down?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Harold is correct. If you take the Bible as metaphor and consider that heaven is within it makes perfect sense. There is no gain without pain. One question might be, if Atheists don't believe that heaven is within, will they ever find it?

Excellent point, Lightkeeper! :goodjob:

 

[dan]

If the bible came from God and he is suppose to be perfect, there would be no errors or contradictions within the covers of the book.

The Bible comes from God as long as it is tranlsated correctly. Unfortunately, we have no perfect (inspired) translations of the Bible today. All we have are imperfect translations of imperfect copies of imperfect manuscripts.

Addressing the issue of atheists in heaven, I like to think of salvation as dependent upon one thing: how well we live up to the light and knowledge that we gain during our life on earth. If a Buddhist lives his laws with more conviction than a Christian does his own, I think the Buddhist will be better off. Think of the parable of the Talents. We are expected to have an increase only of what we are given. Many are never even introduced to the Gospel of Christ, and live out their whole lives struggling to live up to the truth with which they are familiar. God will not condemen them for circumstances beyond their control. They must comply with the principles and ordinances of the Gospel, but there is a way provided them. There are almost one billion people in China that have never even heard the name Jesus Christ. What is to become of them?

 

[dls0008]

I have studied World Mythology, I was forced to in my college required classes. Where or by whom they were wrote is of little consequence to me, I have faith that the Lord uses strange methods to accomplish his tasks. Methods that my human mind cannot understand.

[In Ex 34:14 it reads "For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:"

But in Ex 20:3 it read "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Which lets me know that it is okay to have other Gods as long as the Hebrew God is number one (The Big God). ]

These are not contridictions, these two versus compliment eachother. You have a bold and clear statement in the first verse. In the second one you have a similiar statement that is not quite as clear, WHY would you take the second statement and try to disprove the first. For your point, you should be looking for a verse that says something to the effect of, "You can have some other Gods as long as you like me the most". Which obviously does NOT exist. God clearly gave a statement to you, you need a clear statement against that before you have yourself a contridiction.


YOU SAID "It also says that no one should add to or take away from the Bible."

Again, I believe that God has given us his word, who he uses to deliver it is not my concern. I wholly believe that he may use a muslim to accomplish what he wants.

I never said it was perfect, I said it was inspired. Your level of perfect is probably not on par with Gods. I dont expect either of us to be able to comprehend his level of perfection because we are human.

 

[dan]

There are many bold contradictions in the Bible, though. They're there only because of mistranslations and negligence, not because God isn't perfect.

 

[dls0008]

dls0008,

Alright, good points.

"So worshiping a different God, using books that clearly go against what the Bible teaches would tell me that you do not have the basics down according to the God of the Bible."

What about worshipping the same god under a different name, with a book that has all of the same moral principles, etc. of the bible? Aka, Allah and the Q'ran.

Obviously, using a book that clearly goes against the bible would also be going against the bible's basic principles, but have you noticed that in the issue of morality, the holy books of today's major religions actually seem to agree?

Ceridwen018,
I understand what you are saying. But I still disagree. How are Allah and God the same? Did Allah have a son name Jesus who died for the sins of all man? I don't believe the Q'ran teaches that. And as a matter of getting into heaven which is where this started, the Bible teaches that Christ is the only way, I am not an expert but I don't think many other books or religions believe that. In regards to entering heaven, placing your faith and trust in Christ is the answer, not leading a moral life. Anyways, just my belief.
Thanks for reading.