Do athiest think love is real?

[GadFly]

I am talking about whomever you are talking about. You said--not me, you--that most people who call themselves Christian aren't. So my question is, if they're not Christians, and they're calling themselves Christian, are they dishonest, or just mistaken? It's not really a hard question, and I don't understand why I've had to ask it now three times.

It is clear to me that you misunderstand the term Christian. You keep wanting to judge the outward appearance and use the standard to judge a Christian by what you call a Christian. Your definition does not come from Christian theology but from humanism
Humanism is the religion of the atheist. Humanism is the only standard of morality an atheist has as atheist have rejected the concept of God.

In fact, every one who seeks God, is doing a good thing even if they have many human traits of evil left in their behavior. It takes a whole lifetime for a Christian to become good. God has to mold him. You see him fail at your standards and call him a hypocrite. But, Christians should not stop trying to be like Christ just because you don't recognize his efforts. Fellow Christians should not try to estimate who is and is not a Christian. You do not know where a person's heart is at any given time. Appearances are not real.
GadFly

 

[Autodidact]

This might be the wrong use of the word Christians. I think the term is only used once in the New Testament, maybe twice. Early Christians used the term believers which is more in tune with early Christian theology. The key element in telling whether one is a Christian or not whether he.she is good or bad, we have all sinned, but whether we believe in Christ's death and resurrection. That takes a lot of pressure off Christians to be fake good. Be what you are. If you have Christ in you, you'll perform better than you would without Christ. But, being good is not a criteria fro being a Christian.
GadFly

Do you disagree with Manipulated then, who said that most people who call themselves Christian really aren't?

btw, maybe a Christian can help me out with this--isn't there a NT passage that condemns calling another Christian a non-Christian?

 

[Autodidact]

It is clear to me that you misunderstand the term Christian. You keep wanting to judge the outward appearance and use the standard to judge a Christian by what you call a Christian. Your definition does not come from Christian theology but from humanism
Humanism is the religion of the atheist. Humanism is the only standard of morality an atheist has as atheist have rejected the concept of God.

In fact, every one who seeks God, is doing a good thing even if they have many human traits of evil left in their behavior. It takes a whole lifetime for a Christian to become good. God has to mold him. You see him fail at your standards and call him a hypocrite. But, Christians should not stop trying to be like Christ just because you don't recognize his efforts. Fellow Christians should not try to estimate who is and is not a Christian. You do not know where a person's heart is at any given time. Appearances are not real.
GadFly

I haven't defined the term whatsoever. Manipulated said that most people who call themselves Christian actually aren't real Christians. I'm using his definition, whatever it is. Maybe you need to take issue with him or her. I'm just following up and asking, if they're not true Christians under Manipulated's definition, and they're going around saying they are, why is that?
(1) Are they lying, or just mistaken about their own belief?
(2) Why would they do that? What is their motivation?

 

[Manipulated]

I am talking about whomever you are talking about. You said--not me, you--that most people who call themselves Christian aren't. So my question is, if they're not Christians, and they're calling themselves Christian, are they dishonest, or just mistaken? It's not really a hard question, and I don't understand why I've had to ask it now three times.

Answer this question. Is America a christian nation?

 

[Autodidact]

Answer this question. Is America a christian nation?

Yes and no. The majority of Americans are Christians, but the government of the United States is secular, which means neutral as to religion.

Did you notice how I answered your question to the best of my ability the first time you asked? Wasn't that nice for you? Didn't you appreciate it? I realize that as a Christian it's hard for you to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, but could you exert an effort? Thanks.

Now, for the fourth time IIRC:
YOU say that the majority of people who call themselves Christian are not Christian the majority of the time.
I ask: Are the majority of people who call themselves Christian lying, self-deluded, or is there some other explanation for why they call themselves something they are not?

Currently I am repeating the same question 4 times to two different Christians in two different threads, trying to get an answer. It's hard to resist stereotyping Christians in general as impolite, but you're not helping.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Atheists are not animals who believe in nothing... *cough Sonic cough*

 

[Somkid]

My religion is loving-kindness to all beings not a selected few.

 

[Manipulated]

Yes and no. The majority of Americans are Christians, but the government of the United States is secular, which means neutral as to religion.

Did you notice how I answered your question to the best of my ability the first time you asked? Wasn't that nice for you? Didn't you appreciate it? I realize that as a Christian it's hard for you to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, but could you exert an effort? Thanks.

Now, for the fourth time IIRC:
YOU say that the majority of people who call themselves Christian are not Christian the majority of the time.
I ask: Are the majority of people who call themselves Christian lying, self-deluded, or is there some other explanation for why they call themselves something they are not?

Currently I am repeating the same question 4 times to two different Christians in two different threads, trying to get an answer. It's hard to resist stereotyping Christians in general as impolite, but you're not helping.

Let the dead, bury the dead. You can repeat your question 100 times, I am no longer going to put up with your rudeness, sorry.

 

[Autodidact]

Apparently you think that asking a question is rude, but refusing to answer it is not. I suggest that you would view this differently if you were the one posing the question. btw, can you point out what I said that you perceived as rude?

I can well understand why you prefer to dodge this question. Either way, you would have me believe that the majority of people that I meet who call themselves "Christian" are not to be trusted about even the most basic things, such as their own religious identification, which they are misrepresenting to me. Apparently people-who-call-themselves-Christian are particularly untrustworthy, above average in this respect. Why this would be I don't know, or why you are so suspicious of people-who-call-themselves-Christian. I guess I'll take your advice; you should know. In future I will treat this group with particular suspicion.

 

[Manipulated]

Apparently you think that asking a question is rude, but refusing to answer it is not. I suggest that you would view this differently if you were the one posing the question. btw, can you point out what I said that you perceived as rude?

I can well understand why you prefer to dodge this question. Either way, you would have me believe that the majority of people that I meet who call themselves "Christian" are not to be trusted about even the most basic things, such as their own religious identification, which they are misrepresenting to me. Apparently people-who-call-themselves-Christian are particularly untrustworthy, above average in this respect. Why this would be I don't know, or why you are so suspicious of people-who-call-themselves-Christian. I guess I'll take your advice; you should know. In future I will treat this group with particular suspicion.

Good for you!!

 

[Autodidact]

Here's the thing, Manipulated. You have already both shown and told me that you think it's perfectly acceptable to avoid questions you find too difficult to answer. I'm not particularly interested in talking with someone who uses that tactic. So unless you are willing to answer my points and questions, I'm not interested in continuing our conversation.

I gather that you were not able to point to anything rude that I said then? Care to retract your allegation?

Nothing wrong with my logic or your assertion? "Christians" should in practice be mistrusted?

 

[Autodidact]

btw, Manipulated, how do I know whether you're one of the real Christians or one of the fake ones?

 

[Manipulated]

So unless you are willing to answer my points and questions, I'm not interested in continuing our conversation.

Thats fine, I got nothing to lose.

btw, Manipulated, how do I know whether you're one of the real Christians or one of the fake ones?

You simply don't.

 

[Autodidact]

O.K., so, to recap what we learned from Manipulated:
1. Most people who call themselves Christian really aren't. They are either liars, or grossly deluded.
2. There's no way to tell which is which.
3. So it's best to mistrust all Christians.

Thanks, Manipulated, that was educational.

 

[Manipulated]

O.K., so, to recap what we learned from Manipulated:
1. Most people who call themselves Christian really aren't. They are either liars, or grossly deluded.
2. There's no way to tell which is which.
3. So it's best to mistrust all Christians.

Thanks, Manipulated, that was educational.

Any time, Autodidact.

 

[Charity]

I don't see any difference in the way an atheist would feel about love than anyone else......We are all human and even though we may have different opinions and ideas, we all surely have the capacity to feel love and give love. :group:

 

[Autodidact]

[not serious in what I am about to say to you, Charity, using you as a teaching hypo for Manipulated only.]

Good on you. Unfortunately, according to Manipulated, I should treat everything you say with suspicion, because you call yourself a Christian. Because chances are that you're not really a Christian, and there's no way to tell, I have to assume that you're either a liar or deluded, so probably shouldn't accept anything you say. At least that's if I believe Manipulated, but then he calls himself a Christian too, so maybe he's lying or deluded about that?

[thanks for understanding.]

 

[Charity]

[not serious in what I am about to say to you, Charity, using you as a teaching hypo for Manipulated only.]

Good on you. Unfortunately, according to Manipulated, I should treat everything you say with suspicion, because you call yourself a Christian. Because chances are that you're not really a Christian, and there's no way to tell, I have to assume that you're either a liar or deluded, so probably shouldn't accept anything you say. At least that's if I believe Manipulated, but then he calls himself a Christian too, so maybe he's lying or deluded about that?

[thanks for understanding.]

That's ok I've been used before :biglaugh: The Bible says try the spirits see if they be of the Lord........then you can tell the genuine from the fake... I know I'm not perfect but I strive to be. It's not easy turning the other cheek.........:curtsy:

:foryou:

 

[Heneni]

We all have the capacity to love, true. No one teaches us how to love, no one can stop it from happening when it does. Since there are thousands of different definitons of love, we could debate whether a person is really in love, or showing real love for hours.

To put it simple, and to complicate the matter exceedingly. To love one needs faith.

To revieve love one must have faith.

Have you ever been told by someone they love you, and you did not believe it? You didnt have faith in that person.

You ever loved someone and they did not believe you? They didnt have faith in you.

So if God says he loves everybody, some wont believe unless they have faith. Faith in him. Atheist dont have faith in God, and so they can not love God, neither respond to His love for them.

Would that mean that they dont believe in love? No it would mean they believe in a type of love that can both show itself and be received without faith in the other person.

Its up to them to decide if such love is possible. And I think many would say that it is not, but that would mean they also have the ability to love God, but they would rather not.

Love
Heneni

 

[Autodidact]

We all have the capacity to love, true. No one teaches us how to love, no one can stop it from happening when it does. Since there are thousands of different definitons of love, we could debate whether a person is really in love, or showing real love for hours.

To put it simple, and to complicate the matter exceedingly. To love one needs faith.

To revieve love one must have faith.

Have you ever been told by someone they love you, and you did not believe it? You didnt have faith in that person.

You ever loved someone and they did not believe you? They didnt have faith in you.

So if God says he loves everybody, some wont believe unless they have faith. Faith in him. Atheist dont have faith in God, and so they can not love God, neither respond to His love for them.

Would that mean that they dont believe in love? No it would mean they believe in a type of love that can both show itself and be received without faith in the other person.

Its up to them to decide if such love is possible. And I think many would say that it is not, but that would mean they also have the ability to love God, but they would rather not.

Love
Heneni

Or maybe we just don't believe that God exists.
Are you sure you're clear on what the word "atheist" means?