Do Bad Mutations Kill People?

[james bond]

The point of the thread is that some evolutionary thinkers (epigenetics) think DNA holds promise for being able to explain human behaviors and not just human traits, disease, medical abnormalities and eye color. Some think it will replace God such as co-founders of double-helix Crick and Watson. We have mapped the entire human genome in 2003.

Of course, the DNA and genetic database information does not replace God.

 

[ChristineM]

The point of this thread is genetics, specifically epigenetics and DNA. What can you say about DNA between an ape and humans, Skwim?

Have you looked at the model representations of Lucy or pithecus? I can compare its fossils (from different apes) and tell it's BS. 3-ft tall Lucy was a knuckle walker with locking wrists. More likely a chimpanzee.

Is it me who hasn't learned much or is it you, Skiwm? What did you learn from Jack Chick whom you introduced me to -- Big Daddy? ? Is he talking to you from his grave?

Basically, you subscribe to pseudoscientific racism and circular reasoning. Too much here for me disguised as paleontology. What's interesting is that paleontology has stolen cranial capacity from the creation scientists to fill in their evolution of the gaps. Cranial capacity was one of the arguments used to place Lucy as an chimp/ape.

You seem to be ignoring my post about my avatar, why is that? Is it because is blows your creationist woo out of the water?

 

[ChristineM]

The point of the thread is that some evolutionary thinkers (epigenetics) think DNA holds promise for being able to explain human behaviors and not just human traits, disease, medical abnormalities and eye color. Some think it will replace God such as co-founders of double-helix Crick and Watson. We have mapped the entire human genome in 2003.

Of course, the DNA and genetic database information does not replace God.

Correct, dna (factual) does not replace god (mythology)

 

[james bond]

You have problems reading? I said no such thing and i am offended and insulted that you have to make up bullpoop so score extra god points

Btw, i have a seen lucy and no way is that a skeleton of a chimp.

No, I don't have problems reading. So, you begrudgingly admit that I was right in stating that a chimpanzee and a human were no where alike earlier in this thread and were mimicking each other.

And you wasted your money visiting Lucy. Many people didn't think Lucy was a big deal when it toured that it was sent back to Ethiopia.

 

[james bond]

Cranial capacity?

See my avatar, a cro magnon skull, human of course but 28000 years less evolved than modern humans.

Interestingly their cranial capacity was 10% to 13% greater than modern humans. So by your creation science yardstick we are de-evolving? Is that what you mean by comparing cranial capacity?


Edit : i knew I'd find a use for that avatar on this forum someday

Not really for your avatar. You didn't read what creation scientists considered human vs ape cranial capacity. You just jumped to conclusions about your avatar. So, how do evos explain the de-evolving of the capacity?

 

[ChristineM]

No, I don't have problems reading. So, you begrudgingly admit that I was right in stating that a chimpanzee and a human were no where alike earlier in this thread and were mimicking each other.

And you wasted your money visiting Lucy. Many people didn't think Lucy was a big deal when it toured that it was sent back to Ethiopia.

You most definitely have a problem with something

They are very much alike, as several people have pointed out and you deliberately ignore.

And now you are telling me how to spend my money because it upsets your sensibilities that evidence exist to pop your bubble?

FYI, I'll go with the facts rather than the opinion of a few creationists with an axe to grind because facts are making your bubble shrink.

Edit P.s. i wasted nothing, i was invited

 

[ChristineM]

Not really for your avatar. You didn't read what creation scientists considered human vs ape cranial capacity. You just jumped to conclusions about your avatar. So, how do evos explain the de-evolving of the capacity?

We have spoken about the oxymoron creation science before, what those clowns say is irrelevant to anthropology

No i did not jump to conclusions, my hobby is cro magnon, i study them, i work with them, i moved country so i could spend more time learning from the experts. So don't tell me i jumped to conclusions when you are hyping a myth.

Simple explanation, environment, life is easier for modern humans, the brain (and body) has evolved to the environmental conditions it has created for itself.

 

[Audie]

The problem jb has, or you have if you try to converse,
is that he just makes things up to state as fact. Like that
"replace God" bit. Pure fantasy.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I would be glad to examine her heterochromia, but I wasn't talking about eye pigmentation.

Putting on my atheist science cap. I was referring to epigenetics and in Cruz's case, he would be someone who has the violence gene.

There is no 'atheist science', but i'll assume you mean your methodological naturalist hat.

"A 'violence' gene turns some children into video game 'junkies' - and could also be linked to ADHD.

Young people who played more violent video games and watched more brutal TV shows shared a particular gene, research has found."

Scientists discover 'violence gene' that may be linked to ADHD | Daily Mail Online

Kids with crappy, violent home situations commit more violence.
I don't think a violence Gene is required, nor is it a clear identifier of anything. But sure...there can be genetic components to all behaviours.

Are you suggesting we should genetically test all kids, and assume from a DNA map we know how they'll turn out? That seems fairly extreme.

If Cruz is found guilty and is put to death, then why not examine him and others who are predisposed to committing unlawful violence. While the study of violent behavior has been around for some time, the study of the violence gene hasn't received as much prominence. This is my reason for the thread.

Maybe, but what actions would you take based on such study? There are lots of very obvious factors at play in this unfortunate incident, and we seem incapable of effectively addressing those, much less genetic engineering.

 

[Polymath257]

I was wondering what evolutionary science has to say about the horrendous shooting at Parkland High School in Florida? If we evolved from apes, then is the gunman more an animal than a human being? If he's found guilty, then is it okay based on evolution that he be terminated by lethal injection? If an ape killed humans, even if for food, then it would be shot or euthanized. If Nikolas Cruz is a human being, then what does it say about evolution? For what reason does a mentally disabled man become a crazed killer showing no mercy and killing students at random? This man or animal fooled those closest to him enough for them to think he didn't have guns, but he did. He had numerous run ins with the law. Even if he was mentally ill, shouldn't we think that he was a bad mutation, i.e. more ape than human, and be put in jail like a killer animal to be euthanized if found guilty?

Some may say evolution has nothing to do with this. If evolution has nothing to do with this, then what purpose does it serve if we cannot apply it to today's society? We still have apes. We have humans. Thus, can we have bad mutations?

is there any evidence the shooter's affliction is genetic? If not, it isn't a mutation. if it is, then it is.

Does evolution have something to say about this? Well, if the affliction is genetic, then yes: it is likely to be bad for survival and that gene will be eliminated over time unless there is a benefit in some other way. If it is not genetic, then evolution has nothing to say.

 

[Polymath257]

Oh great. Another internet atheist taking pot shots.

Can someone else give me some answers on why we still have apes and we have humans? That's just like what creation science states. We do not have any mutations. So, evolutiion happened maybe just once millions of years ago and we have no other evidence of mutations?

Why would we not have other apes? A small population of apes lead to humans. Other populations of apes lead to modern apes.

We have Europeans even though many migrated to America.

 

[Polymath257]

I'm glad you state mutations continue to happen which is the basis for my questions. To cut to the chase, we know how to distinguish humans from animals.

Animals are a type of eucaryotic organisms whose cells have membranes and not glycosidic cell walls. Guess what? Humans are animals.

How do we distinguish a mutation from a human or another animal? I picked Cruz because he just happens to be all over the news.

Huh? Mutations aren't even in a comparable class to humans and animals. Mutations are changes to the genetic code. They are not individuals. They are changes.

 

[Polymath257]

Oh, the other shoe has dropped. Are you saying we evolved from chimpanzees now? That I was right when I stated that Lucy was a chimpanzee?

No, both chimps and humans evolved from a common (ape) ancestor. But both chimps and humans are apes:

This is my own commentary, previously posted in several places:

1) Are you made of complex cells with internal organelles? If so, you are a eucaryote.

2) Do your cells have membranes made of lipids rather than walls made from glucosides and are they surrounded by an extracellular matrix composed of collagen and glycoproteins? Then you are an Animal.

3) During embryo development, does the blastopore (the first opening) become the anus? Then you are a Deuterostome.

4) Do you have a head, backbone, brain, red blood cells, and kidneys? Then you are a Vertebrate.

5) Are air-breathing, have hair, three ear bones, sweat glands, the ability to regulate internal temperature and specialized teeth? Then you are a Mammal.

6) Do you lack an epi-pubic bone and do females like you have a uterus which produces a placenta during pregnancy? Then you are a placental Mammal.

7) Do you have a collar bone, opposable fingers, a flat nail on fingers and toes, eye sockets made from bone, stereoscopic vision, an enlarged cerebral cortex? Then you are a Primate.

8) Do you have a narrow nose and downward pointed nostrils, broad rib cage, a fused frontal bone, convoluted cerebral hemispheres, a large brain for his size of mammal, color vision, a lack of tail, and a lack of cheek pouches? Then you are an Ape.

So, yes, if you are human, then you *are* an ape.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, I don't have problems reading. So, you begrudgingly admit that I was right in stating that a chimpanzee and a human were no where alike earlier in this thread and were mimicking each other.

And you wasted your money visiting Lucy. Many people didn't think Lucy was a big deal when it toured that it was sent back to Ethiopia.

The people that thought that were incredibly ignorant science deniers.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not really for your avatar. You didn't read what creation scientists considered human vs ape cranial capacity. You just jumped to conclusions about your avatar. So, how do evos explain the de-evolving of the capacity?

Once again, "creation scientists" is an oxymoron. You cannot promise not to use the scientific method and call yourself a scientist.

 

[Skwim]

The point of this thread is genetics, specifically epigenetics and DNA. What can you say about DNA between an ape and humans, Skwim?

In as much as humans are apes, something you've been told countless times, your question is just more trolling, and not worth addressing.

​

Have you looked at the model representations of Lucy or pithecus? I can compare its fossils (from different apes) and tell it's BS. 3-ft tall Lucy was a knuckle walker with locking wrists. More likely a chimpanzee.

That's very nice, particularly in light of the fact that you have absolutely no background in human or anthropoid anatomy. Please don't expect me to give your remark any credulity. In other words,

"Malarky !"​

"Malarky !"​

"Malarky !"​

Is it me who hasn't learned much or is it you, Skiwm? What did you learn from Jack Chick whom you introduced me to -- Big Daddy?

Well, I learned that some Christians are willing to believe any kind of silly crap as long as it bolsters their beliefs.

Basically, you subscribe to pseudoscientific racism and circular reasoning. Too much here for me disguised as paleontology. What's interesting is that paleontology has stolen cranial capacity from the creation scientists to fill in their evolution of the gaps. Cranial capacity was one of the arguments used to place Lucy as an chimp/ape.

.​

 

[james bond]

There is no 'atheist science', but i'll assume you mean your methodological naturalist hat.



Kids with crappy, violent home situations commit more violence.
I don't think a violence Gene is required, nor is it a clear identifier of anything. But sure...there can be genetic components to all behaviours.

Are you suggesting we should genetically test all kids, and assume from a DNA map we know how they'll turn out? That seems fairly extreme.




Maybe, but what actions would you take based on such study? There are lots of very obvious factors at play in this unfortunate incident, and we seem incapable of effectively addressing those, much less genetic engineering.

From your post, I thought the gene police similar to the thought police in The Minority Report film with Tom Cruise. I wouldn't take any actions based on a violence gene, gay gene or other behavior gene because its presence is not cause and effect. Besides, genes do not work that way. It's the environment that changes the gene. Genes could also be multifactorial, i.e. human genetic expression could be both due to environmental and genetic factors. Thus, those prone to violence can be changed as well as those prone to being gay or prone to violence although strictly genetic factors cannot be changed.

 

[james bond]

No, both chimps and humans evolved from a common (ape) ancestor. But both chimps and humans are apes:

This is my own commentary, previously posted in several places:

1) Are you made of complex cells with internal organelles? If so, you are a eucaryote.

2) Do your cells have membranes made of lipids rather than walls made from glucosides and are they surrounded by an extracellular matrix composed of collagen and glycoproteins? Then you are an Animal.

3) During embryo development, does the blastopore (the first opening) become the anus? Then you are a Deuterostome.

4) Do you have a head, backbone, brain, red blood cells, and kidneys? Then you are a Vertebrate.

5) Are air-breathing, have hair, three ear bones, sweat glands, the ability to regulate internal temperature and specialized teeth? Then you are a Mammal.

6) Do you lack an epi-pubic bone and do females like you have a uterus which produces a placenta during pregnancy? Then you are a placental Mammal.

7) Do you have a collar bone, opposable fingers, a flat nail on fingers and toes, eye sockets made from bone, stereoscopic vision, an enlarged cerebral cortex? Then you are a Primate.

8) Do you have a narrow nose and downward pointed nostrils, broad rib cage, a fused frontal bone, convoluted cerebral hemispheres, a large brain for his size of mammal, color vision, a lack of tail, and a lack of cheek pouches? Then you are an Ape.

So, yes, if you are human, then you *are* an ape.

No I am not an *ape.*

That's all very interesting, but faulty assumption give faulty results. Evolutionists insult me stating I evolved from an ape and that we are apes. It is also pseudoscientific racism. We do not have a common ancestor as we were created as humans. God gave humans dominion over animals. No ginormous ape or chimp can rule over other animals like humans. I have command over my two dogs and am the most dangerous animal despite big lions, tigers, bears, killer whales and other big predatory animals that rule their part of the animal kingdom.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No I am not an *ape.*

That's all very interesting, but faulty assumption give faulty results. Evolutionists insult me stating I evolved from an ape and that we are apes. It is also pseudoscientific racism. We do not have a common ancestor as we were created as humans. God gave humans dominion over animals. No ginormous ape or chimp can rule over other animals like humans. I have command over my two dogs and am the most dangerous animal despite big lions, tigers, bears, killer whales and other big predatory animals that rule their part of the animal kingdom.

So if you are not a human being what kind of animal are you? Are you a dolphin that has managed to come across a waterproof keyboard?

And no, the fact that all men are descended from other apes is in no way racist. Those that are racists may make a false interpretation of evolution, but in no way the fact that if you are a human you are an ape racist. All human beings are equally apes so how would that be racist?

 

[Polymath257]

No I am not an *ape.*

That's all very interesting, but faulty assumption give faulty results. Evolutionists insult me stating I evolved from an ape and that we are apes. It is also pseudoscientific racism. We do not have a common ancestor as we were created as humans. God gave humans dominion over animals. No ginormous ape or chimp can rule over other animals like humans. I have command over my two dogs and am the most dangerous animal despite big lions, tigers, bears, killer whales and other big predatory animals that rule their part of the animal kingdom.

OK, which of the biological criteria for an ape do you *not* satisfy?

And, by the way, I am an ape also, and is my wife, as is *every* human. That isn't an insult.