Do "Believers" really believe?

[LogDog]

Do “Believers” really believe? How would one make that determination? For example if a person is asked to choose between repudiating religious beliefs or watching his child die, would a repudiation of belief to save the child be enough proof that such a person really doesn’t believe?

And if a person chose not to repudiate his religion and chose instead to have his child killed, would that prove belief, or would it prove insanity?

It’s very difficult for me to accept that people actually take this religious stuff seriously. I’m more inclined to believe that they are simply going along with the cultural norm and have never been asked to examine their actions in a meaningful way. They primarily want to survive, and religion is presently the path to survival. But if religion were the path to self destruction, would they still choose religion? And if they did, would that be a sane choice?

 

[Sunstone]

Why don't you just take people at their word when they say they believe something?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

It’s very difficult for me to accept that people actually take this religious stuff seriously. I’m more inclined to believe that they are simply going along with the cultural norm and have never been asked to examine their actions in a meaningful way. They primarily want to survive, and religion is presently the path to survival. But if religion were the path to self destruction, would they still choose religion? And if they did, would that be a sane choice?

Because, of course, the cultural norm in the U.S. is Paganism, and I would be alienated if I didn't follow along with the rest of the crowd. I haven't turned to a certain path because it holds personal validity for me and doesn't call into question the rights of others to believe or not believe what they wish, I just decided it because it was the easiest path to take.

 

[Katzpur]

Do “Believers” really believe?

Yes, they do, and most of them don't appreciate the implication that they're either stupid or insane. Do atheists really not believe? Some would say there are no atheists in foxholes, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.

How would one make that determination?

Is my faith really something you feel compelled to prove? Why on earth would it even matter to you?

It’s very difficult for me to accept that people actually take this religious stuff seriously.

So don't. Who's asking you to?

 

[Booko]

Do “Believers” really believe?

If I didn't, I expect I would've stayed an atheist. It's not like there was any compelling reason to change my mind on the issue.

It’s very difficult for me to accept that people actually take this religious stuff seriously.

It's hard for me to believe that people take anime seriously, but they obviously do. After some convincing on the part of my kids, I can at least see their point -- a bit.

Perhaps religion is not that different. Unless you're willing on some level to give it a whirl, you're likely to remain on the outside looking in, wondering what the fuss is all about.

I’m more inclined to believe that they are simply going along with the cultural norm and have never been asked to examine their actions in a meaningful way.

Well, I'm sure the local pagans will disabuse you of this notion pretty quickly. I myself put myself in the way of condemnation by taking up my religion (Baha'i) which was at first seen by my family as a despicable cult. They would've prefered I remained atheist, because then I was just "lapsed" and of course would eventually come around to the societal norms. (haha)

They primarily want to survive, and religion is presently the path to survival.

How is religion the path to survival? I hope you're not gonig to trot out that tired old saw about theists fear of extermination after death. Oblivion never bothered me a whit as an atheist, and it wouldn't bother me now either. I'd be oblivious. What, me worry? I would've believed what I believe now even if it taught that death was the end of life.

But if religion were the path to self destruction, would/quote they still choose religion? And if they did, would that be a sane choice?

There are lots of paths to self-destruction in this life. Attachments (using a bit of Buddhist terminology here) are what leads to self-destruction. You don't even have to be a theist to recognize this "religious" principle.

 

[UnTheist]

They believe. Get over it

 

[Feathers in Hair]

It's hard for me to believe that people take anime seriously, but they obviously do. After some convincing on the part of my kids, I can at least see their point -- a bit.

Imagine the trouble we Pagan anime-fans have! *gasps*

 

[Bishka]

Do believers really believe?

Absolultey. If it came between my husband dying and denying my beliefs, I would never deny my beliefs -- and my husband would do the same. We have a strong belief and knowledge of the afterlife and would never deny our faith (even if it were to save our lives).

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." (Matthew 16:25)

 

[LogDog]

Do believers really believe?

Absolultey. If it came between my husband dying and denying my beliefs, I would never deny my beliefs -- and my husband would do the same. We have a strong belief and knowledge of the afterlife and would never deny our faith (even if it were to save our lives).

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." (Matthew 16:25)

Thank you for a very insightful answer.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Thank you for a very insightful answer.

The other answers don't get a response?

( )

 

[Bishka]

Thank you for a very insightful answer.

Your welcome.

I truly much believe, and it is no threat of 'hell' or 'damnation' that causes me to believe either. I believe, because I WANT to believe and that I know it's true.

 

[LogDog]

I know it's true.

Everything was going so well up to this point.

 

[Bishka]

Everything was going so well up to this point.

I'm sorry that you feel that way, but truth is subjective to the individual. My knowledge of the truth may be something totally different then what you see, but I know it to be true or I would not be following the path that I have chosen. I don't follow something unless I know it is true.

 

[LogDog]

I'm sorry that you feel that way, but truth is subjective to the individual. My knowledge of the truth may be something totally different then what you see, but I know it to be true or I would not be following the path that I have chosen. I don't follow something unless I know it is true.

Good luck with that.

 

[Bishka]

Good luck with that.

It's obvious that this is sarcasm, but I'll take it. I'm not really sure what you are wishing me good luck in, or why. I'm happy with my faith and so is my family. I'm not trying to debate my faith and why it is wrong or right, but to try to show people the truth that I know.

 

[Willamena]

Do “Believers” really believe? How would one make that determination? For example if a person is asked to choose between repudiating religious beliefs or watching his child die, would a repudiation of belief to save the child be enough proof that such a person really doesn’t believe?

Of course not. "Repudiation" can be simply a statement.

And if a person chose not to repudiate his religion and chose instead to have his child killed, would that prove belief, or would it prove insanity?

Given that he has no other alternatives, I'd say yes, it's be silly not to make the statement.

It’s very difficult for me to accept that people actually take this religious stuff seriously. I’m more inclined to believe that they are simply going along with the cultural norm and have never been asked to examine their actions in a meaningful way. They primarily want to survive, and religion is presently the path to survival. But if religion were the path to self destruction, would they still choose religion? And if they did, would that be a sane choice?

For some, self-destruction (one with unity) is "salvation" (survival), and it's not insane because it's an atittude.

 

[LogDog]

It's obvious that this is sarcasm, but I'll take it. I'm not really sure what you are wishing me good luck in, or why. I'm happy with my faith and so is my family. I'm not trying to debate my faith and why it is wrong or right, but to try to show people the truth that I know.

I couldn't find anything pertaining to "fantasy", "delusion" or "irrationality" in the definition of "truth" in my dictionary. What's yours say?

 

[Bishka]

I couldn't find anything pertaining to "fantasy", "delusion" or "irrationality" in the definition of "truth" in my dictionary. What's yours say?

None of what I believe is delusional to me or in the slightest a fantasy. Like you've chosen to ignore -- truth is subjective to the individual. You cannot tell me that my truth is wrong and unbelievable because you do not know what I know.

 

[maro]

Do “Believers” really believe? How would one make that determination? For example if a person is asked to choose between repudiating religious beliefs or watching his child die, would a repudiation of belief to save the child be enough proof that such a person really doesn’t believe?

And if a person chose not to repudiate his religion and chose instead to have his child killed, would that prove belief, or would it prove insanity?

muslims believe that life ,with all its events ,is to test how much we truely believe, that's because it is not enough for someone to say "i believe " to earn a ticket to paradise ,
if one truly believes in something , he will be willing to struggle for what he believes ,and sacrifice for it ,
but yet islam, doesn't tell us to take what we can't afford , in order to be believers

for example , when one of the companions of the prophet (PBUH) was tortured by the disbelievers of Mekka ,
they told him ,if you insulted your prophet , we will let go of you,
and as he couldn't endure the torturing , he said what they asked him ,
and after that he was afraid that he is not a muslim anymore, because he couldn't stand for what he believes , and he went to the prophet (PBUH) to tell him about it

the prohet(PBUH) told him, if they torture you again , say the same thing again , and there isn't anything wrong with that , as long as what you said doesn't come from your heart , but only because you couldn't endure the pain ,

and i think the same thing can be applied , if someone is going to kill a muslim's child , for example

 

[Feathers in Hair]

LogDog, I'm interested in how you would answer people who are not from a monotheistic religion. Speaking to only one person who happens to believe something in particular is rather 'selective'. If you're questioning all 'believers', please be willing to listen to the answers from all of them.