Do Christians believe the Second Coming of Christ is imminent?

[kaoticprofit]

the only way to know when Christs return is imminent is to watch for the 'sign' that he gave.

When you see the sign occuring in detail, you should be convinced that Jesus is here and ruling....iow, he will have already arrived when the sign is seen.

The sign:



Is Christ present? I would say yes. Most definitely he's already here.

If Christ were already here we would have already gone through tribulation, there would be no "distress of nations," the judgment of nations would have separated the "sheep and goats," and the vials or last plagues would have already been dispensed, the gentiles would be serving Israel.............and a whole lot more.
I know what the JW'S believe but have never agreed with it.

 

[Pegg]

If Christ were already here we would have already gone through tribulation, there would be no "distress of nations," the judgment of nations would have separated the "sheep and goats," and the vials or last plagues would have already been dispensed, the gentiles would be serving Israel.............and a whole lot more.
I know what the JW'S believe but have never agreed with it.

look closely at Matthew 24

"What will be the sign of YOUR PRESENCE and of the conclusion of the system.."

The sign that Jesus gave would signal his 'presence' in kingdom power.

It wasnt a sign that he will still be 'coming'....but that he would have already 'arrived' ....and upon his arrival, the sign would begin to be seen around the world and his disciples would know that he was here.

 

[kaoticprofit]

look closely at Matthew 24

"What will be the sign of YOUR PRESENCE and of the conclusion of the system.."

The sign that Jesus gave would signal his 'presence' in kingdom power.

It wasnt a sign that he will still be 'coming'....but that he would have already 'arrived' ....and upon his arrival, the sign would begin to be seen around the world and his disciples would know that he was here.

You are actually reading the text wrong anyway. The question, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
The passage doesn't say that the Lords coming or 'presence' would be the sign.

The sign of His presence would be his presence???....Makes no sense!

The question is "what would be the sign of His coming! NOT THAT HIS COMING WOULD BE THE SIGN!

And you look at what the word parousia means...

presence
the coming, arrival, advent

the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God

Look at what Vines says...
lit., "a presence," para, "with," and ousia, "being" (from eimi, "to be"), denotes both an "arrival" and a consequent "presence with." Coming (Noun):

For instance, in a papyrus letter a lady speaks of the necessity of her parousia in a place in order to attend to matters relating to her property there. Paul speaks of his parousia in Philippi, Phl 2:12 (in contrast to his apousia, "his absence;" see ABSENCE). Other words denote "the arrival" (see eisodos and eleusis, above). Parousia is used to describe the presence of Christ with His disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration, 2Pe 1:16. When used of the return of Christ, at the Rapture of the Chruch, it signifies, not merely His momentary "coming" for His saints, but His presence with them from that moment until His revelation and manifestation to the world. In some passages the word gives prominence to the beginning of that period, the course of the period being implied, 1Cr 15:23; 1Th 4:15; 5:23; 2Th 2:1; Jam 5:7, 8; 2Pe 3:4. In some, the course is prominent, Mat 24:3, 37; 1Th 3:13; 1Jo 2:28; in others the conclusion of the period, Mat 24:27; 2Th 2:8.
The word is also used of the Lawless One, the Man of Sin, his access to power and his doings in the world during his parousia, 2Th 2:9. In addition to Phl 2:12 (above), it is used in the same way of the Apostle, or his companions, in 1Cr 16:17; 2Cr 7:6, 7; 10:10; Phl 1:26; of the Day of God, 2Pe 3:12.

The word 'coming' or 'presence' in no way implies that the Lord returned in 1914. When the Lord returns everyone will know it!

 

[Pegg]

You are actually reading the text wrong anyway. The question, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
The passage doesn't say that the Lords coming or 'presence' would be the sign.

The sign of His presence would be his presence???....Makes no sense!

The question is "what would be the sign of His coming! NOT THAT HIS COMING WOULD BE THE SIGN!

And you look at what the word parousia means...

presence
the coming, arrival, advent

the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God

Look at what Vines says...
lit., "a presence," para, "with," and ousia, "being" (from eimi, "to be"), denotes both an "arrival" and a consequent "presence with." Coming (Noun):

For instance, in a papyrus letter a lady speaks of the necessity of her parousia in a place in order to attend to matters relating to her property there. Paul speaks of his parousia in Philippi, Phl 2:12 (in contrast to his apousia, "his absence;" see ABSENCE). Other words denote "the arrival" (see eisodos and eleusis, above). Parousia is used to describe the presence of Christ with His disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration, 2Pe 1:16. When used of the return of Christ, at the Rapture of the Chruch, it signifies, not merely His momentary "coming" for His saints, but His presence with them from that moment until His revelation and manifestation to the world. In some passages the word gives prominence to the beginning of that period, the course of the period being implied, 1Cr 15:23; 1Th 4:15; 5:23; 2Th 2:1; Jam 5:7, 8; 2Pe 3:4. In some, the course is prominent, Mat 24:3, 37; 1Th 3:13; 1Jo 2:28; in others the conclusion of the period, Mat 24:27; 2Th 2:8.
The word is also used of the Lawless One, the Man of Sin, his access to power and his doings in the world during his parousia, 2Th 2:9. In addition to Phl 2:12 (above), it is used in the same way of the Apostle, or his companions, in 1Cr 16:17; 2Cr 7:6, 7; 10:10; Phl 1:26; of the Day of God, 2Pe 3:12.

The word 'coming' or 'presence' in no way implies that the Lord returned in 1914. When the Lord returns everyone will know it!

I dont believe that you fully understand the text you've copied in here.

If i say i am 'coming', i havn't arrived yet. You will still be waiting for me.

But if I say I am 'present', then i have arrived and am here with you. Like when the teacher is reading out the rollcall and the students who are in the class call out 'Present' when they hear their name called.

Parousia means the person has arrived.

You quoted text above says

"Parousia is used to describe the presence of Christ with His disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration

and so it is, when Jesus disciples saw the many 'signs' being fulfilled, then they would know that Jesus was present.

 

[kaoticprofit]

I dont believe that you fully understand the text you've copied in here.

If i say i am 'coming', i havn't arrived yet. You will still be waiting for me.

But if I say I am 'present', then i have arrived and am here with you. Like when the teacher is reading out the rollcall and the students who are in the class call out 'Present' when they hear their name called.

Parousia means the person has arrived.

You quoted text above says

and so it is, when Jesus disciples saw the many 'signs' being fulfilled, then they would know that Jesus was present.

Parousia DOES NOT MEAN THE PERSON HAS ARRIVED. If that were so then Mathew 24 would be a false prophecy. The 'parousia' is also associated with 'judgments' and none of them have yet taken place. It's also associated with Christ setting up His millennial kingdom.

Did you read what Strong's said?

presence
the coming, arrival, advent
the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God.

Notice the question the apostles posed to Jesus...

Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

WHAT SHALL BE THE SIGN OF YOUR PRESENCE!!!!!

JESUS GOES ON TO EXPLAIN SOME OF THE SIGNS!

He also said, "for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

HIS "presence" doesn't come until "all those things come to pass!!!"

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Jesus said he returns "at the end of tribulation!"

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days......

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The JW"S have done this teaching as a cover up to a major prophetic blunder. They said he would return on three different occasions after 1914-21 before opting to call their blunder His "presence."

 

[Pegg]

Parousia DOES NOT MEAN THE PERSON HAS ARRIVED. If that were so then Mathew 24 would be a false prophecy. The 'parousia' is also associated with 'judgments' and none of them have yet taken place. It's also associated with Christ setting up His millennial kingdom.

Did you read what Strong's said?

Yes i did, and i feel you dont understand what you were posting.

Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Vol. 1, pp. 208, 209) states: “PAROUSIA .*.*. denotes both an arrival and a consequent presence with.

Jesus is present. And things are being fulfilled. But all things will happen in their correct order. Jesus wasnt going to come and suddenly rise everyone from the dead.

There were many things that would need to take place first during his presence and they are things he spelled out as the 'sign of his presence'.

Notice the question the apostles posed to Jesus...

Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

whatever translation you are using have given the wrong translation for this verse. The Greek word used is not 'coming' but 'presence' (Parousia)

When you understand that they were asking what sign would be seen for them to know that he had returned, or was present, then you can understand that it is the sign we should be looking for.

WHAT SHALL BE THE SIGN OF YOUR PRESENCE!!!!!

JESUS GOES ON TO EXPLAIN SOME OF THE SIGNS!

He also said, "for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

HIS "presence" doesn't come until "all those things come to pass!!!"

No, you have it wrong. Jesus will be 'present' when all these things are occurring. Thats what it means.

"What will be THE SIGN OF YOUR PRESENCE...nation against nation, food shortages, eathquakes...the preaching of the good news, AND THEN THE END WILL COME"

Jesus will be present when all these signs are occurring. His final execution of judgement comes at the 'end' after the preaching has been accomplished.

The JW"S have done this teaching as a cover up to a major prophetic blunder. They said he would return on three different occasions after 1914-21 before opting to call their blunder His "presence."

Our teaching that Christ arrived in 1914 has never changed. We still hold to that view today.
1914 saw the beginning of Christs enthronement in heaven...we are living in the 'last days'

He is here.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I think those that take the Bible as literal do, and supposedly 59% of people think the rapture is going to really happen. I personally don't believe in it.

 

[kaoticprofit]

Jesus is present. And things are being fulfilled. But all things will happen in their correct order. Jesus wasnt going to come and suddenly rise everyone from the dead.

There were many things that would need to take place first during his presence and they are things he spelled out as the 'sign of his presence'.

Here's a list you must have seen. Look at what took place by the leadership of the JW'S between 1908 and 1922 just to see what you think.

Prophecy Blunders! 100 Years of Failed Watchtower prophecies

Read it and you can tell they knew they made a blunder.

whatever translation you are using have given the wrong translation for this verse. The Greek word used is not 'coming' but 'presence' (Parousia)

I'm the one who should be questioning what translation you are using.

They can use the word presence since it's an accurate translation. But it does not mean that this "presence" occurred in 1914. It really is contradictory to the context in that Christ was asked by his apostles three things. And those two things go hand in hand they will occur at the same time.

They asked,

"Tell us, when shall these things be?"

"and what shall be the sign of thy coming,"

"and of the end of the world?"

You can't separate the three things in this question. His "parousia" is right in the middle of it between 'when' and "the end of the world." The only reason why the JW"S claim Christ returned in presence in 1914 because he never showed up and they don't want to admit a blunder.

When you understand that they were asking what sign would be seen for them to know that he had returned, or was present, then you can understand that it is the sign we should be looking for.

I actually understand the text quite well. And nothing took place in 1914 to fulfill any portion of Mathew 24. People thought Hitler was the anti-Christ too and that proved to be wrong.

No, you have it wrong. Jesus will be 'present' when all these things are occurring. That's what it means.

These signs and events mentioned in Mathew 24 are what cause Jesus to return. It would also be strange for Jesus to see His own return.

"What will be THE SIGN OF YOUR PRESENCE...nation against nation, food shortages, eathquakes...the preaching of the good news, AND THEN THE END WILL COME"

Jesus will be present when all these signs are occurring. His final execution of judgement comes at the 'end' after the preaching has been accomplished.

Where is there any proof that Jesus returned in presence in 1914? I have no problem with the meaning of the term. But you also have to look at the definition of the entire word.

This is what Thayer's says...
presence

the coming, arrival, advent

the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God.

It takes an arrival to have a presence. And only after all the things mentioned in Chapter 24. The arrival happens here...

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

This is how I see it and have difficulty understanding why anybody would see it any different. You believe what you do and it's because you stand by your religion and that's OK.

Our teaching that Christ arrived in 1914 has never changed. We still hold to that view today.
1914 saw the beginning of Christs enthronement in heaven...we are living in the 'last days'

OK OK!

 

[Pegg]

Where is there any proof that Jesus returned in presence in 1914? I have no problem with the meaning of the term. But you also have to look at the definition of the entire word.

the proof is in the 'sign' being seen worldwide since the very first world war in 1914.

Since that time, mankind has experienced all of the signs Jesus gave 'simultaneously' happening around the globe. And if you can't see the sign, then that explains why you dont think Jesus has arrived yet.

This is what Thayer's says...
presence

the coming, arrival, advent

the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God.

It takes an arrival to have a presence. And only after all the things mentioned in Chapter 24. The arrival happens here...

well you see this is where you havnt understood Jesus words

The sign would occur 'during' his presence....hence 'after' his 'arrival'

What will be the SIGN OF YOUR PRESENCE/ARRIVAL

The sign of his presence is 'wars, earthquakes, foodshortages...preaching of good news'

When we see those things, we will know that Christ has arrived and is present.

 

[Sees]

The sign of his presence is 'wars, earthquakes, foodshortages...preaching of good news'

When we see those things, we will know that Christ has arrived and is present.

Besides the gospel being preached more, the other signs are not really more frequent that we can tell. Every century has such things, and it always seems like the stuff going on in your own time must be the worse ever. 50 years from now people will be absolutely certain that it is imminent.

 

[Pegg]

Besides the gospel being preached more, the other signs are not really more frequent that we can tell. Every century has such things, and it always seems like the stuff going on in your own time must be the worse ever. 50 years from now people will be absolutely certain that it is imminent.

you know, we are not the only ones who say the world was forever changed by the first world war. History has recorded whats been going on since that time.

Regarding War:
Estimated dead from WW1 - 8,500,000
Estimated dead from WW2 - 35*million to 60*million soldiers and civilians

And since the end of ww2 and 2010, there were 246 armed conflicts in 151 locations worldwide. We only have 7 continents on earth...war is rife and much more brutal then what it was like prior to 1914! We now have the power to blow up the entire planet....and how scary to consider the prospect of the USA and Russia playing fisticuffs over Ukraine! I fear to imagine the devastation that could bring.

Earthquake activity facts show an increase:
Of earthquakes, seismologist R.*K.*Chadha said in 2007 “Suddenly we are seeing a spurt in seismic activity globally...Nobody knows why.”
The World Disasters Report 2010 says: “Of all large disasters, seismic events have killed the greatest number of people in recent years.”
From 1970 to 2001, there was an average of 19 earthquakes per year reported, with an average death toll of 19,547.

But between 2002-2012, the average increased to 28 earthquake disasters per year, with an average death toll of 67,954.


Of diseases 'some' facts:
“One-third of the world’s population is currently infected with the TB bacillus,” says World Health Organization

Smallpox killed an estimated 300*million to 500*million people in the 20th*century.

The Worldwatch Institute reports that during the past three decades, “more than thirty previously unrecognized diseases such as Ebola, HIV, Hantavirus, and SARS have emerged as new threats.”

The World Health Organization has warned of the rise of drug-resistant germs, saying: “The world is heading towards a post-antibiotic era, in which many common infections will no longer have a cure and, once again, [will] kill unabated.”


Can anyone seriously not look at these figures and discern that things are escalating? The past 100 years has been horrific for mankind. Not to mention the devastation on the environment and animal life....

We’re currently experiencing the worst spate of species die-offs since the loss of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. Although extinction is a natural phenomenon, it occurs at a natural “background” rate of about one to five species per year. Scientists estimate we’re now losing species at 1,000 to 10,000 times the background rate, with literally dozens going extinct every day [1]. It could be a scary future indeed, with as many as 30 to 50 percent of all species possibly heading toward extinction by mid-century [2].

Sheesh, and i havent even mentioned global warming yet :run:

 

[jonah bear]

:cross::bible:Well, what do you say? :help: reach:​

I believe that it is more imminent today than it was 2,000 years ago. Yes, it is imminent but it might be another 2,000 years. God knows, we do not.

 

[Pegg]

I believe that it is more imminent today than it was 2,000 years ago. Yes, it is imminent but it might be another 2,000 years. God knows, we do not.

The signs tells us that he is already here.

Look to the signs. Thats how we are to discern he has arrived. Do people even take his words seriously???

Matthew 24.

 

[Shiranui117]

The signs tells us that he is already here.

Look to the signs. Thats how we are to discern he has arrived. Do people even take his words seriously???

Matthew 24.

Did you see Jesus coming down from Heaven just as He had ascended--that is, descending in His body, riding on the clouds of Heaven, with the sounds of the trumpet and shouts of archangels? I'm basically a hermit over here in Austria and never check the news, but even I would know if that happened.

So no, He isn't back yet.

 

[Pegg]

Did you see Jesus coming down from Heaven just as He had ascended--that is, descending in His body, riding on the clouds of Heaven, with the sounds of the trumpet and shouts of archangels? I'm basically a hermit over here in Austria and never check the news, but even I would know if that happened.

So no, He isn't back yet.

Christ begins his rule from heaven. Daniel saw this in vision:

Daniel 7:13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.

Jesus is given rulership, not on earth, but in heaven in the company of God.

We can't see into heaven, can we?

 

[Robert.Evans]

you know, we are not the only ones who say the world was forever changed by the first world war. History has recorded whats been going on since that time.

Regarding War:
Estimated dead from WW1 - 8,500,000
Estimated dead from WW2 - 35*million to 60*million soldiers and civilians

And since the end of ww2 and 2010, there were 246 armed conflicts in 151 locations worldwide. We only have 7 continents on earth...war is rife and much more brutal then what it was like prior to 1914! We now have the power to blow up the entire planet....and how scary to consider the prospect of the USA and Russia playing fisticuffs over Ukraine! I fear to imagine the devastation that could bring.

Earthquake activity facts show an increase:
Of earthquakes, seismologist R.*K.*Chadha said in 2007 “Suddenly we are seeing a spurt in seismic activity globally...Nobody knows why.”
The World Disasters Report 2010 says: “Of all large disasters, seismic events have killed the greatest number of people in recent years.”
From 1970 to 2001, there was an average of 19 earthquakes per year reported, with an average death toll of 19,547.

But between 2002-2012, the average increased to 28 earthquake disasters per year, with an average death toll of 67,954.


Of diseases 'some' facts:
“One-third of the world’s population is currently infected with the TB bacillus,” says World Health Organization

Smallpox killed an estimated 300*million to 500*million people in the 20th*century.

The Worldwatch Institute reports that during the past three decades, “more than thirty previously unrecognized diseases such as Ebola, HIV, Hantavirus, and SARS have emerged as new threats.”

The World Health Organization has warned of the rise of drug-resistant germs, saying: “The world is heading towards a post-antibiotic era, in which many common infections will no longer have a cure and, once again, [will] kill unabated.”


Can anyone seriously not look at these figures and discern that things are escalating? The past 100 years has been horrific for mankind. Not to mention the devastation on the environment and animal life....



Sheesh, and i havent even mentioned global warming yet

You can always find things to fit an argument if you want to, even atheists seems to do that. The coming (presence) of Yahshuah has happened. The next time is in death, though we might say that we feel his presence in other ways as he is the All

 

[chongjasmine]

I believe Jesus Christ is coming back soon.
And I believe that when He comes, the day will be a joyous occasion.