Do Happy People Need Religion ?

[MoonWater]

Thank you MoonWater, yes I like the way you think, I am in a lot of ways the same, I love gospel music, and I do see all scripture as mythology or metaphorically, it just works well with me personally.

I think what I am trying to say, do we need religion to be happy in life, what if religion never existed, what would we use to fill that void that many feel, and whatever that may be, would we then need that to be happy in life, or should happiness come from within and not to be found outside of us ?.

Well the thing is, for me, religion does come from within as it is first and foremost about my personal experiences, how i perceive the world, and what will most help me become a better and fuller person. Some people need it some don't. You mentioned in another post how you get fulfillment out of oil painting, well i get fulfillment out of writing stories but have never found the same fulfillment with painting or any other form of artistic expression. There is no way i can see myself being happy if i could not write. So that's basically the way i see it with religion. Some need it more than others, some don't need it at all and can find the same benefits through other means, and each person who does need or want to use religion will need to find the one(s) that works for them.

We are all individuals and as such different things will bring us happiness. I'm happy being around children but other people find that idea excruciating. Yet i honestly don't understand how anyone could not find happiness with children, just as you have friends who don't understand how you can be happy without religion. We all have to find what works best for us.

 

[psychoslice]

Well, it has to be clear. Do you believe the brain seeks out a god or the idea of one is already implanted in the head, or the concept has to be introduced (by religion)?

I don't feel that the brain seeks out anything, its what we have been conditioned and programmed, that seeks out what it needs.

 

[psychoslice]

I believe love is another basic propensity of our self. We must place it somewhere and we seek it in return. One can love their car or house, children or partner, community or nation, occupation or ideology, and so on, the list is endless. Would you say loving one's child is more significant than any of the others? The selfless love of a parent to child may be higher, because it is selfless, and therefore purer. Likewise, the child's unambiguous love for their parent is pure and unadulterated. Perhaps, love's final conclusion is in pure selfless love of God, through which we can understand and experience God's unlimited love for us, together through which we can love all things more completely and purely than ever (as Jesus even demonstrated).

But can't we love all things without bringing a God into the equation, we say we love our children, but we don't usually think about other children, as long as they are ours we love them.....so is this truly love ?.

 

[psychoslice]

Well the thing is, for me, religion does come from within as it is first and foremost about my personal experiences, how i perceive the world, and what will most help me become a better and fuller person. Some people need it some don't. You mentioned in another post how you get fulfillment out of oil painting, well i get fulfillment out of writing stories but have never found the same fulfillment with painting or any other form of artistic expression. There is no way i can see myself being happy if i could not write. So that's basically the way i see it with religion. Some need it more than others, some don't need it at all and can find the same benefits through other means, and each person who does need or want to use religion will need to find the one(s) that works for them.

We are all individuals and as such different things will bring us happiness. I'm happy being around children but other people find that idea excruciating. Yet i honestly don't understand how anyone could not find happiness with children, just as you have friends who don't understand how you can be happy without religion. We all have to find what works best for us.

Yes, I like the way you think about this question, this is a healthy way of looking at life and religion, and I wish that many others also can see it this way.

As I already have said, my friends couldn't see how happy I could be without their beliefs, and this is what I am trying to work out, why ???.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

“So many religions are there because so many people are unhappy. A happy person needs no religion; a happy person needs no temple, no church — because for a happy person the whole universe is a temple, the whole existence is a church. The happy person has nothing like religious activity because his whole life is religious.” -Osho

I remember when I joined a church many years ago, that i wasn't truly happy with life, there was something missing. I think i was hoping to find something within the church to make me happy, I didn't really know at the time what i wanted.

As I got to know people in the church I begin to feel happy, and I was happy. As time went on I found the church saying things like, if you fall away from the church you will be in Satan's territory and your life will be miserable. I really believed this for many years.

Yes my life was happy at first in the church, but as time went on I started to feel again that something wasn't right, I could see that we were being taught that we are nothing without Jesus or God, that we were nothing but filthy rags and nothing but sinners, that is as long as we don't have Jesus in our lives. I felt that this was all a ploy to keep us in the church, maybe not intentionally, but subconsciously, I felt a lot of guilt over this also.

Also later in my church life i was starting to develop mental illness which later was diagnosed as being schizophrenia. At this time i was really feeling down and the guilt was getting much stronger.

One night when I was so over come by the mental illness, I just fell onto my bed and i felt as if I disappeared into a void, I felt like i wasn't the body, that I was stretched out through all space and time, in this experience I felt that i was all there IS, that there wasn't anything separate from myself or anything.

This experience showed me that I didn't need a church or to believe in anything, I was already all there IS, I cannot be anything more or less, and that it was only my mind that kept me away from realizing this simple truth, or at least the truth that I experienced.

So now I realize that we don't need religion to be truly happy, I am not taking away the pleasure that other people get from their religion, but I am simply saying that we don't need religion to be happy, well at least that was my experience.

So how do you feel, do you believe you need religion to be happy, can you be happy without religion, and if not why not, thank you.

What makes us happy is a subjective experience. It depends on the level of personal satisfaction gained through association with the 'pleasure principle', in accordance with the timeframe this level of 'happiness' is felt.

Most things that make us happy can make us just as easily un happy if we find ourselves otherwise bereft of them. Certain things that once made us 'happy' may now make us un happy when certain memories are thus associated.

We find ourselves on Earth/this plane of Existence/whatever you wish to call it for a very short space of time...90 to 100 years IF we are lucky. Life is just 'too short' for a lot of things....even things which make us 'happy', when in a few years time....or within the span of the universal time, all that is just totally insignificant and doesn't matter.

So, if one needs 'religion' to realise this, religion has served its purpose. IMO (of course).

 

[idav]

It seems like what a lot of people are looking for or clinging to is some sort of purpose for it all. I find that many people get upset by the thought of us having to create our own purpose. This could lead to not feeling as if life is fullfilling so by all means, people should find a way to make life fullfilling whether it is through religion, god or our natural selves finding meaning and purpose through life and love.

 

[MoonWater]

Yes, I like the way you think about this question, this is a healthy way of looking at life and religion, and I wish that many others also can see it this way.

As I already have said, my friends couldn't see how happy I could be without their beliefs, and this is what I am trying to work out, why ???.

honestly I don't know if there is an answer to that question since happiness is such a subjective and personal concept. I don't understand how anyone could be happier without children than with them, I don't understand how someone could be happy without some form of artistic expression or how someone could be happy living alone. And yet people do achieve happiness in this way. I think it all comes down to our own personal experience, and we can never have the same experiences as someone else, as such our understanding of that person's happiness will be somewhat limited.

 

[idav]

honestly I don't know if there is an answer to that question since happiness is such a subjective and personal concept. I don't understand how anyone could be happier without children than with them, I don't understand how someone could be happy without some form of artistic expression or how someone could be happy living alone. And yet people do achieve happiness in this way. I think it all comes down to our own personal experience, and we can never have the same experiences as someone else, as such our understanding of that person's happiness will be somewhat limited.

People can find or feel fullfillment in many places and some find having and teaching children to be very fullfilling but is that sort of happiness permanent? Is a persons life going to come crashing down from losing god or losing a loved one? So it is often dangerous to put all our happiness in things that are not permanent to begin with. As long as the thing giving happiness is a strong foundation and not a crutch, then we should be able to find happiness more easily without becoming stuck, obsessed or attached somehow.

 

[psychoslice]

What makes us happy is a subjective experience. It depends on the level of personal satisfaction gained through association with the 'pleasure principle', in accordance with the timeframe this level of 'happiness' is felt.

Most things that make us happy can make us just as easily un happy if we find ourselves otherwise bereft of them. Certain things that once made us 'happy' may now make us un happy when certain memories are thus associated.

We find ourselves on Earth/this plane of Existence/whatever you wish to call it for a very short space of time...90 to 100 years IF we are lucky. Life is just 'too short' for a lot of things....even things which make us 'happy', when in a few years time....or within the span of the universal time, all that is just totally insignificant and doesn't matter.

So, if one needs 'religion' to realise this, religion has served its purpose. IMO (of course).

That's a nice philosophical way of looking at what happiness is, and I feel that is how we all should view happiness. But again so many don't see it this way, they cannot imagine themselves or others leaving what they themselves find to be happiness, be that religion or whatever.

Happiness is subjective as you said, therefore it must be within us all the time, unless its just chemicals stirred up in the brain.

I have to say that if I was happy at the time I wanted to join my church, I don't think I would have actually joined at all. The church was something I clinged to at that time when my life was going down hill, and when I became happy in the church I then stayed because of the fix of happiness, I suppose it was like a drug.

 

[psychoslice]

It seems like what a lot of people are looking for or clinging to is some sort of purpose for it all. I find that many people get upset by the thought of us having to create our own purpose. This could lead to not feeling as if life is fullfilling so by all means, people should find a way to make life fullfilling whether it is through religion, god or our natural selves finding meaning and purpose through life and love.

I certainly agree with that, its just when people think that whatever makes them happy should be the very thing that others also need to make them happy, we should let people make up their own minds to whatever makes them happy and not force our beliefs of happiness onto others, be that religion or whatever.

 

[psychoslice]

honestly I don't know if there is an answer to that question since happiness is such a subjective and personal concept. I don't understand how anyone could be happier without children than with them, I don't understand how someone could be happy without some form of artistic expression or how someone could be happy living alone. And yet people do achieve happiness in this way. I think it all comes down to our own personal experience, and we can never have the same experiences as someone else, as such our understanding of that person's happiness will be somewhat limited.

That's funny you said that, i myself have never been married or had children, and I also think how can people be truly happy having children or living together for the rest of their lives, as I also love living by myself and cannot imagine living any other way. But I do realize that is me, I don't represent everyone else on this planet, and this is the same with religion, what makes one feel blissful may make another feel sick. So yes your right it all boils down to or own personal experience, as long as we don't hurt others then its right for us.

 

[psychoslice]

People can find or feel fullfillment in many places and some find having and teaching children to be very fullfilling but is that sort of happiness permanent? Is a persons life going to come crashing down from losing god or losing a loved one? So it is often dangerous to put all our happiness in things that are not permanent to begin with. As long as the thing giving happiness is a strong foundation and not a crutch, then we should be able to find happiness more easily without becoming stuck, obsessed or attached somehow.

Sorry to butt in, yes I like what you said, "As long as the thing giving happiness is a strong foundation and not a crutch."

 

[ChristineES]

I didn't join a faith to suddenly become happy. I am the same person now as I was before I found my faith. That is true for a lot of us.
I am not going to say that no one joins a faith to find happiness, because that isn't true, either.

 

[psychoslice]

I didn't join a faith to suddenly become happy. I am the same person now as I was before I found my faith. That is true for a lot of us.
I am not going to say that no one joins a faith to find happiness, because that isn't true, either.

Yes i would agree with that, its just those who are there because they believe they could be nowhere else, and projects that onto the world, believing that the world should be where they are also that bugs me. The same can be said by those who don't believe in a god, they may also wonder how anyone could be happy in an institution such as a church.