Do the Abrahamic Religions worship Enlil?

[Rainbow Mage]

I have to wonder. Because they all place their religion as having began in Chaldea/Sumer. Enlil is a deity of the Sumerian Pantheon who was always described as wrathful and jealous. Like in the epic of Gilgamesh it's Enlil who floods the earth in jealousy because Shamash and Anu recieve more worship then he does. Makes me wonder.

 

[gnostic]

In the Epic of Atrahasis, Enlil flood the earth because the humans were numerous and chatter too much. For a god, the noises the humans made were deafening, and the god was irritable because he couldn't sleep.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

I have to wonder. Because they all place their religion as having began in Chaldea/Sumer. Enlil is a deity of the Sumerian Pantheon who was always described as wrathful and jealous. Like in the epic of Gilgamesh it's Enlil who floods the earth in jealousy because Shamash and Anu recieve more worship then he does. Makes me wonder.

I'd worship Enki instead.

Devil in the water FTW.

:jam:

 

[Cartel41]

The old gods breed the new ones. Just read any mythos or histroy

 

[fallingblood]

I have to wonder. Because they all place their religion as having began in Chaldea/Sumer. Enlil is a deity of the Sumerian Pantheon who was always described as wrathful and jealous. Like in the epic of Gilgamesh it's Enlil who floods the earth in jealousy because Shamash and Anu recieve more worship then he does. Makes me wonder.

No. We know more about the history of Judaism than what the Bible says.

Also, even if they worshipped Enlil at one point, they haven't for thousands of years.

 

[fallingblood]

To just expand on what I said. Outside the Bible, there is little evidence Judaism came from Sumer. Evidence is pointing to the idea that it was a Canaanite tribe, that later separated itself after Egypt started loosing power in the region. From what it looks like, they took a local tribal god and eventually made it into God.

There is no evidence to suggest that God is enlil. Even if it started off that way, which it most likely didn't, by the time Judaism developed into a monolatry, there is not doubt it was God, and not Enlil. Actually, even from the time that the decided to make themselves distinct from the other Canaanite tribes, God could not be seen as Enlil, especially as soon as the Jewish god started evolving.

I'm actually kind of surprised by this question from you though. I would assume you would know better.

 

[gnostic]

To just expand on what I said. Outside the Bible, there is little evidence Judaism came from Sumer. Evidence is pointing to the idea that it was a Canaanite tribe, that later separated itself after Egypt started loosing power in the region. From what it looks like, they took a local tribal god and eventually made it into God.

There is no evidence to suggest that God is enlil. Even if it started off that way, which it most likely didn't, by the time Judaism developed into a monolatry, there is not doubt it was God, and not Enlil. Actually, even from the time that the decided to make themselves distinct from the other Canaanite tribes, God could not be seen as Enlil, especially as soon as the Jewish god started evolving.

Probably, fallingblood.

But you forget one thing.

It may not have gotten from the Sumerian religion itself, but it could have gotten it from the Old Babylonian or Middle Babylonian period. The Babylonian religion was quite widespread, and they have found fragments of Akkadian or Babylonian texts of the story of Gilgamesh as far as the Hittite Empire, Palestine and even in Egypt.

From my private studies of the Egyptian and Near Eastern myths, the Canaanite and Syrian god, El and Ba'al were most likely derived from the mixture of Babylonian gods.

El, "god", was mostly derived from a combination of Anu (Sumerian An, god of heaven), Enlil (god of earth and winds) and Ea (Sumerian Enki, god of the water). Enlil can also be written as Ellil, which seemed close enough to El or Il. The name means "Lord of the Winds". The Israelite also referred to their one god as El, just like the Canaanite/Syrian El or Il. And the name Elohim seemed to derive from El.

Ba'al means "lord", but he was called Hadad, god of thunder, and the Babylonian version of Hadad is Adad (Sumerian Ishkur), who was also the god of thunder.

Also some of the Canaanite gods found their way into Egypt, such as Ba'al, Reshep, Anat, Astarte, Baalat and Qadesh, brought in by the Semitic people known as the Hyksos.

So the Babylonian gods could have reached Canaan and Syria, very much the same way the Canaanite gods reached Egypt. Not only that. The worship of the goddess Ishtar (Sumerian Inanna) had reached Egypt at the time of Assyrian empire, probably in the 7th century BCE.

So there are no doubt a derivative of the Sumerian god(s) reached Canaan. Just as the Canaanite changed the Babylonian deities (Enlil and Ba'al) for their own religion, the early Judaism could have easily adapted the Canaanite gods to suit their one god, quite easily.

And from what I understand of Hebrew religion, Yahweh was not a name used until Moses' time, probably in 13th century BCE.

 

[fallingblood]

Probably, fallingblood.

But you forget one thing.

It may not have gotten from the Sumerian religion itself, but it could have gotten it from the Old Babylonian or Middle Babylonian period. The Babylonian religion was quite widespread, and they have found fragments of Akkadian or Babylonian texts of the story of Gilgamesh as far as the Hittite Empire, Palestine and even in Egypt.

From my private studies of the Egyptian and Near Eastern myths, the Canaanite and Syrian god, El and Ba'al were most likely derived from the mixture of Babylonian gods.

El, "god", was mostly derived from a combination of Anu (Sumerian An, god of heaven), Enlil (god of earth and winds) and Ea (Sumerian Enki, god of the water). Enlil can also be written as Ellil, which seemed close enough to El or Il. The name means "Lord of the Winds". The Israelite also referred to their one god as El, just like the Canaanite/Syrian El or Il. And the name Elohim seemed to derive from El.

Ba'al means "lord", but he was called Hadad, god of thunder, and the Babylonian version of Hadad is Adad (Sumerian Ishkur), who was also the god of thunder.

Also some of the Canaanite gods found their way into Egypt, such as Ba'al, Reshep, Anat, Astarte, Baalat and Qadesh, brought in by the Semitic people known as the Hyksos.

So the Babylonian gods could have reached Canaan and Syria, very much the same way the Canaanite gods reached Egypt.

I wouldn't argue against what you're saying. It makes a lot of sense. But even then, El and Enlil were different enough. El may be derived from Enlil, or based on Enlil, but they are still different enough.

To expand on that, the Hebrew god even seemed to change completely during its evolution. I'm rusty on the history, as I prefer early Christianity studies, but even in the Old Testament one can see God going from a being who is friendly with his followers to the point that he would talk directly to them, and even meet with them, to a being who seems detached from civilization. Karen Armstrong goes over this very well.

I can see how the Hebrew god may have been influenced by Enlil, but the time they became a monolatry, there was no way to really relate God and Enlil. By the time they became an actual monotheistic religion, the differences were that much more. And now, I don't believe there is anyway to even suggest that the Abrahamic God is Enlil. God has evolved so much over time that even just comparing the Old Testament God to the New Testament God is quite a difference.

 

[gnostic]

To expand on that, the Hebrew god even seemed to change completely during its evolution. I'm rusty on the history, as I prefer early Christianity studies, but even in the Old Testament one can see God going from a being who is friendly with his followers to the point that he would talk directly to them, and even meet with them, to a being who seems detached from civilization. Karen Armstrong goes over this very well.

I can see how the Hebrew god may have been influenced by Enlil, but the time they became a monolatry, there was no way to really relate God and Enlil. By the time they became an actual monotheistic religion, the differences were that much more. And now, I don't believe there is anyway to even suggest that the Abrahamic God is Enlil. God has evolved so much over time that even just comparing the Old Testament God to the New Testament God is quite a difference.

I don't think that the Abrahamic god just inherited just one Sumerian/Akkadian god alone (your Enlil). I think this Hebrew god inherited the attributes of 3 most powerful Sumerian/Akkadian gods which I have already listed in my last post - An/Anu, Enlil/Ellil and Enki/Ea.

And if you look at the Genesis, we see one god choosing to destroy the world with the flood, while saying just one family. In the earlier Sumerian and Akkadian myth, however one god (Enlil) decided to destroy the world, while another god (Enki/Ea) chooses to say mankind, make far more sense. For whatever reason, there are enough similarities between the two Flood myths.

Strangely enough, I could not find a Flood myth in the Canaanite/Ugaritic mythology. So my thought is that Israelites must have gotten the myth from the Babylonian myth (which was actually derived an older Sumerian myth).

 

[Levite]

It may be possible that early proto-Hebrews drew on elements of Chaldean deities in their mythological constructions, but by the time Israelite religion is forming itself into Biblical Judaism, they are not at all drawing on those sources, but rather upon the Midianite, Moabite, and Canaanite mythos and deities, along with their own creative experience. If you are looking for early Israelite syncretistic theology, look toward El, not Enlil.

 

[Cypress]

I think the Abrahemitic religions - particularly Judaism - may have boroed from Akhenaten & his worship of Aten.
Also the name Moses may be of egypt origin, according to Wikipedia

Some medieval Jewish scholars had suggested that Moses' actual name was the Egyptian translation of "to draw out", and that it was translated into Hebrew, either by the Bible, or by Moses himself later in his lifetime.
A 20th century Catholic source says that Moses is an Egyptian name, with the same root as Tuth-mose and Ramses. It means "born." Exodus 2:10 gives the etymology. Moses would be the participle of the verb masha. "to draw.
According to Islamic tradition, his name, Mūsā, is derived from two Egyptian words: Mū which means water and shā meaning tree (or reeds), in reference to the fact that the basket in which the infant Moses floated came to rest by trees close to Pharaoh's residence.

.
Perhaps Moses was of egypt origin?

 

[gnostic]

Could you fix your quote, cypress?

Change your [/url] to [/quote]....

 

[gnostic]

It may be possible that early proto-Hebrews drew on elements of Chaldean deities in their mythological constructions, but by the time Israelite religion is forming itself into Biblical Judaism, they are not at all drawing on those sources, but rather upon the Midianite, Moabite, and Canaanite mythos and deities, along with their own creative experience. If you are looking for early Israelite syncretistic theology, look toward El, not Enlil.

As I said, in my previous reply before yours, the Canaanites don't have a Flood myth. So it is more than likely that the Israelites had adopted and adapted the Mesopotamian myths for their own version of the Flood.

The Canaanite god El is very different to the Israel El.

El love feast, getting drunk....and lots and lots of sex. He was known as the Bull El, which means he was a god of fertility, and was known for sexual appetite and sexual romps with divine and mortal women. In several small narratives are devoted about El's Divine Feast.

The identification between Hebrew and Canaanite gods are mostly their generalized attributes, such as being the god of heaven, supreme god of the pantheon and the universe, and as a mountain god. The Hebrew El/Yahweh have been identified with several mountains, supposed sacred.

Which Midianite or Moabite deity are you referring to, levite?

 

[gnostic]

Going back to Senedjem's original question of whether the Abrahamic religions worship Enlil...

...I would say :no: they don't.

If the question was about "Was the Hebrew god derived from Enlil, such as the attributes?" Then I would say :yes:, but indirectly and to the degree.

Indirectly, because it went through Canaanite, Babylonian and Akkadian, to get to Sumerian. This is true to also the original Sumerian creator gods, An and Enki. The Hebrew god attained many of the attributes of all 3 Sumerian gods, but not directly from Sumerian gods themselves.

I say "to the degree", because the Hebrew god didn't adopt every single attributes of Enlil or the other 2 gods.

The Hebrew god also gained the attributes of the Amorite (and Babylonian) Marduk, such as being king of the gods, creator god, omnipotence (or invincibility). But Marduk had acquired many of his attributes also from an older Sumerian god - Ninurta.

The reason being that Old Babylonian literature (as well as Middle Babylonian) was not confined in Mesopotamia (Babylonia and Assyria). Their tales or myths have spread east and west, and the Canaanites and Ugarits had adopted and adapted the Babylonian deities, to make it uniquely their own pantheon, just as the Hebrews would later do to Canaanite and Babylonian gods.

What the Hebrew religion did was to make the god less personified, but some of the old pagan attributes had still seep through, whether they were knowing or not.

 

[Levite]

As I said, in my previous reply before yours, the Canaanites don't have a Flood myth. So it is more than likely that the Israelites had adopted and adapted the Mesopotamian myths for their own version of the Flood.

The Canaanite god El is very different to the Israel El.

El love feast, getting drunk....and lots and lots of sex. He was known as the Bull El, which means he was a god of fertility, and was known for sexual appetite and sexual romps with divine and mortal women. In several small narratives are devoted about El's Divine Feast.

The identification between Hebrew and Canaanite gods are mostly their generalized attributes, such as being the god of heaven, supreme god of the pantheon and the universe, and as a mountain god. The Hebrew El/Yahweh have been identified with several mountains, supposed sacred.

Which Midianite or Moabite deity are you referring to, levite?

Less any specific deity than traits of several of the highest: I suspect the earliest proto-Hebrew theology was something of a syncretic fusion and rearrangement, and as monolatry developed further and further toward monotheism, ever more divine traits and purviews became agglomerated into YHVH, until there was only one God who did everything. But though the Genesis cycles of early E certainly did borrow from Mesopotamian mythos, the more developed monolatrous/monotheistic theology expressed by JE and P1 certainly reflect a much more austere deity, more akin to the Midianite El, who was a sky god and, much like the Canaanite El, was to be found on mountaintops.

 

[gnostic]

Less any specific deity than traits of several of the highest: I suspect the earliest proto-Hebrew theology was something of a syncretic fusion and rearrangement, and as monolatry developed further and further toward monotheism, ever more divine traits and purviews became agglomerated into YHVH, until there was only one God who did everything.

I agreed with you that the development of the Hebrew god had derived his attributes from polytheistic gods, but at the same time move further away from pagan ideals to a more monotheistic development.

But though the Genesis cycles of early E certainly did borrow from Mesopotamian mythos, the more developed monolatrous/monotheistic theology expressed by JE and P1 certainly reflect a much more austere deity, more akin to the Midianite El, who was a sky god and, much like the Canaanite El, was to be found on mountaintops.

I only know of the Canaanite/Syrian pantheon, and know less on the pantheon of Israel's other neighbors (like the Edomites, Moabites). So thank you. I didn't know that the Midianite had their own El.

 

[Cypress]

Could you fix your quote, cypress?

Change your [/url] to

....[/quote]
Thanks for the hint.

 

[gnostic]

Thanks for the hint.

You're welcome. I'm glad that I could help.

 

[Smoke]

To just expand on what I said. Outside the Bible, there is little evidence Judaism came from Sumer.

There's no evidence for it inside the Bible, either. The Bible depicts Abraham as making a break with the religion of his ancestors, and Jewish tradition makes that depiction far more explicit.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I agree there's really no evidence Judaism came from Sumer. It was just a question of interest I thought I'd pose. Another interesting one is that El Elyon is the chief Canaanite deity, and Melchizzedek is called his Priest in Genesis.