Do the British own English?

[Copernicus]

I am publishing this from another thread in order not to derail that thread in the Religious Debates forum. However, I may be triggering a language riot here. This is in response to something that Willamena posted on the use of dictionaries of American English:

It's not so much that it does it (reflect how a word is actually used), no harm in that, but that its usages are specific to this one nation on the Earth. My first forays onto Internet chat rooms revealed a number of surprising differences even with Canadian English, which reflects more the proper British English than American.

I'm just saying that to cite it as authority is to cite a number of nation-specific definitions that it also includes.

I understand, but the assumption that England has exclusive rights to define the language is not reasonable. The US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, South Africa, and many other nations all have national standards for the language that are more or less different. English is currently the lingua franca of world trade. If you attend any academic conference outside of the US, the chances are more likely than not that the majority of presentations will be in English. If you read documents from those conferences, you will find that most of them follow US, not British, writing conventions. That is pretty good evidence in favor of the view that American usage is the basis of the world lingua franca.

BTW, this kind of role reversal can be seen in some other colonial languages. The American version of Spanish tends to be more common than Castillian Spanish as a world standard, and Brazilians tend to dominate the trend in the Portuguese-speaking world.

 

[Willamena]

If what you're understanding is that "England has exclusive rights to define the language" then I doubt you're actually understanding. Or, to put it another way, what you're standing-under isn't what I'm standing-under.

 

[Copernicus]

If what you're understanding is that "England has exclusive rights to define the language" then I doubt you're actually understanding. Or, to put it another way, what you're standing-under isn't what I'm standing-under.

Okayyyyy.... Then can you explain what you meant by "Canadian English, which reflects more the proper British English than American". What makes you think that British English is "more proper" than American English?

First of all, Canadian English belongs to the Northern dialect of American English, which is also known as Standard American English (although it has a few more British spelling conventions and some distinctive dialect traits). In fact, British spelling tended to adopt French conventions in colonial times, whereas Americans, allies of the French during the revolutionary war, chose less French-influenced spelling. Moreover, American English pronunciation is a bit more conservative than the British. I have always pointed out to my British friends that Shakespeare is more accurately pronounced with an American accent. :yes:

But, more to the point, what do you think ought to be the solution? You expressed the feeling that it was somehow harmful to English that American usage predominated. What is your vision for correcting the problem?

 

[kai]

Your assuming everyone in Britain speaks "proper " English , do you mean likw the Queen speaks or the hundreds of different accents nationwide. i mean you would think a man from Belfast and a man from southampton were speaking a totally different language at first.Language changes all the time and most of my friends dont understand Shakespeare at all.

 

[Father Heathen]

You expressed the feeling that it was somehow harmful to English that American usage predominated. What is your vision for correcting the problem?

People who think there is a "problem" clearly don't understand how languages actually work.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

... the assumption that England has exclusive rights to define the language is not reasonable.

I would really like to start the language riot going at full throttle. It is the Irish not the British who are best poets and writers.

Irish Literature encompasses both Irish and English languages.
The island's most widely known literary works are undoubtedly in English. The "Emerald Isle" has made a disproportionate contribution to English literature in all its branches, for a comparatively very small island.

Some of the very famous examples of English literary are those of James Joyce, Oscar Wilde, and Ireland's four winners of the Nobel Prize for Literature; William Butler Yeats, George Bernard Shaw, Samuel Beckett and Seamus Heaney.

Irish Poetry, Fiction and Theater is rooted in both Celtic mythology and the suffering of the Irish people. It has helped make English Literature what it is today.

I am not Irish so you cant use my poor English skills to judge Ireland's Literature. Nice cop out huh!

 

[kai]

British literature refers to literature associated with the United Kingdom, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands as well as to literature from England, Wales and Scotland prior to the formation of the United Kingdom.
By far the largest part of British literature is written in the English language, but there are bodies of written works in Latin, Welsh, Scottish Gaelic, Scots, Cornish, Manx, Jèrriais, Guernésiais and other languages. Northern Ireland has a literary tradition in English, Ulster Scots and Irish. Irish writers have also played an important part in the development of English-language literature.
Literature in the Celtic languages of the islands is the oldest surviving vernacular literature in Europe. The Welsh literary tradition stretches from the 6th century to the 21st century. The oldest Welsh literature does not belong to the territory we know as Wales today, but rather to northern England and southern Scotland. But though it is dated to be from the 6th, 7th, and 8th centuries, it has survived only in 13th- and 14th century manuscript copies. Irish poetry represents a more or less unbroken tradition from the 6th century to the present day.


British literature - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term English literature refers to literature written in the English language, including literature composed in English by writers not necessarily from England; Joseph Conrad was Polish, Robert Burns was Scottish, James Joyce was Irish, Dylan Thomas was Welsh, Edgar Allan Poe was American, V.S. Naipaul was born in Trinidad, Vladimir Nabokov was Russian. In other words, English literature is as diverse as the varieties and dialects of English spoken around the world.

English literature - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

not a simple subject the ownership of "English"

 

[Watchmen]

My Shakespeare professor (who was from England) always got a kick out of American students reading Shakespeare with an English accent. Why? As she pointed out, today's British accents are nothing like the English of Shakespeare's day. To perform his works with British accents is no more accurate than to use their natural American accents.

 

[kai]

My Shakespeare professor (who was from England) always got a kick out of American students reading Shakespeare with an English accent. Why? As she pointed out, today's British accents are nothing like the English of Shakespeare's day. To perform his works with British accents is no more accurate than to use their natural American accents.

Exactly! you need an interpretor

may be of interest:
Shakespearean Vernacular

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

Do the British own English?

That cannot be said as most people across the globe use English and those who do not aspire to learn it.
No one has any copyright over it.
Language is merely a communication tool and since the idea is that since we live in a global village we need to understand each other and a common language surely helps.
However since now most english speaking people use the language with their own nuances due to geographical, cultural, regional, voice modulation and due other parameters determine the way the use or speak the language; personally donot see it making much differences in its objective of communication of a thought even with those differences.
So let us get over trival matters of ownership and focus on the need for a common global language to communicate to start with which helps in one globe one human race and finally one as BEINGS.
Love & rgds

 

[Willamena]

Then can you explain what you meant by "Canadian English, which reflects more the proper British English than American". What makes you think that British English is "more proper" than American English?

By "more proper" I mean its style and usage. It more closely follows traditional grammatical structures.

Canadian English ...has a few more British spelling conventions.

That's all "more proper" meant.

There's also the consideration of the way figures of speech are used: as an example, if you knew what "more proper" was you would never have taken offense at this. (just kidding)

But, more to the point, what do you think ought to be the solution? You expressed the feeling that it was somehow harmful to English that American usage predominated. What is your vision for correcting the problem?

I have no "solution", mostly because I do not see a problem. What you've read into my words is just that: what you've read into my words.

American and British English differences - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Willamena]

Your assuming everyone in Britain speaks "proper " English , do you mean likw the Queen speaks or the hundreds of different accents nationwide. i mean you would think a man from Belfast and a man from southampton were speaking a totally different language at first.Language changes all the time and most of my friends dont understand Shakespeare at all.

Just so. The assumption that it's British people who speak more properly was not implied.

 

[Panda]

Just so. The assumption that it's British people who speak more properly was not implied.

Though it is true

Seriously though, can anyone define British English. What about the regional versions from all over? I know words that people outside of the area I grew up in won't understand.

 

[Willamena]

Seriously though, can anyone define British English. What about the regional versions from all over? I know words that people outside of the area I grew up in won't understand.

There's a link above. I'll repost it.
American and British English differences - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I mean, it's like us Americans don't talk good like english people in movies and stuff. You can tell when somebody is really smart in a movie, because they talk like really correct, ya know, and have an english accent.

 

[Father Heathen]

Seriously though, can anyone define British English.

I don't think it refers to accents but rather the slight spelling differences (center vs centre, color vs. colour, aluminum vs. aluminium, etc) and different word meanings (water closet vs. restroom, what you call chips we call fries, and what we call chips you call crisps, football vs. soccer, boot of a car vs. trunk of a car, bonnet of a car vs. hood of a car, etc. and "stuffed", "f@g" and "fanny" both mean completely different things depending on where you're from, etc.)

 

[Panda]

There's a link above. I'll repost it.
American and British English differences - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I read some of it. But the point I made still applies. Be that I mean no one follows all the definitions in the article. Instead it will depend on regional variations.

 

[Panda]

I don't think it refers to accents but rather the slight spelling differences (center vs centre, color vs. colour, aluminum vs. aluminium, etc) and different word meanings (water closet vs. restroom, what you call chips we call fries, and what we call chips you call crisps, football vs. soccer, boot of a car vs. trunk of a car, bonnet of a car vs. hood of a car, etc. and "stuffed", "f@g" and "fanny" both mean completely different things depending on where you're from, etc.)

#

Water closet? Thats a new one for me.

 

[Storm]

This seems like as good a place as any to ask: what is the precise difference between "empathy" and "sympathy?"

 

[Father Heathen]

#

Water closet? Thats a new one for me.

What? I thought that's what you UKians called restrooms.