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Do voters have a right to know if a candidate is in poor health?

Underhill

Well-Known Member
That is the part of this whole thing that seems absurd. The same people calling for Hillary's records ignore the fact that Trump has based his whole campaign on his business acumen but has yet to offer up his records, both private and business related. Trump has yet to release any of his medical history. But Clinton, who has issued a report from her doctor, who has admitted to a concussion and other health issues, is being too tight lipped? *boggle
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
bull ****.
It is the right of all candidates.

I have no problems with there being physical and mental restrictions to the job.
However, just like every other job with health related restrictions, the medical records of those applying are none of the public's damn business

In most cases I would agree with you but in the case of the highest office in the country with the power to make such weighty decisions as declaring war for one example, I think there should be an exception. Not saying it should disqualify them, but we the people should know if the person we are considering for the office is physically and mentally fit to fulfill their duties.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
That is the part of this whole thing that seems absurd. The same people calling for Hillary's records ignore the fact that Trump has based his whole campaign on his business acumen but has yet to offer up his records, both private and business related. Trump has yet to release any of his medical history. But Clinton, who has issued a report from her doctor, who has admitted to a concussion and other health issues, is being too tight lipped? *boggle

Apply said standard to both candidates.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Trump made his records public yesterday in a one page summary form.

You don't think Hillary has 'issues' as well?
Nobody is questioning Trump's health that I know about.
It's his financial dealings that people care about. Tax returns would help people decide whether he is fit to be president or not. His unwillingness to release even that much proves to me that he is hiding things that would cost him more votes than hiding the information is.
Tom
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I'd like to start by saying I agree with you completely, except for one little thing. A disability is occasionally a limiting factor.

I'm not speaking to either of the candidates, but hypothetically. Also, I'm going to exaggerate for the sake of clarification. Let's say hypothetically that you run a daycare, which is a pretty good metaphor for being President BTW. And let's further suppose that while hiring for this daycare, you are presented with two candidates who are essentially indistinguishable, except that candidate number two occasionally hear voices that tell them to harm children. The law says that both candidates must be given equal treatment, but wouldn't it be better for the second candidate to go get medical help, instead of being placed in a position where he or she might actually harm others, and by extension themselves?

The complete disclosure of medical histories is probably too much, but the disclosure of medical issues that might directly affect their ability to perform the job, like dementia, or Alzheimer's doesn't seem like an excessive request. Physical health conditions are essentially irrelevant. One of the three best Presidents the US ever had was in a wheelchair. But previously diagnosed mental issues should, in my opinion, be subjected to public scrutiny if they would affect the ability of the person to correctly perform their job.

Why
public scrutiny? As I said at the beginning of the thread, I see absolutely no need for that and many compelling reasons not to allow such a thing. Whether or not a medical condition makes a person unfit for duty is (and should be) between the patient and the doctor. The doctor - a professional and an expert who has the best interests of the patient at heart, and is objective in their assessments. Contrast that to "the public," where you'll get mob-mentality, people with agendas wanting to take them down a peg, and who are hardly experts. It's just an incredibly stupid idea. As we've observed already, people use this crap for political gain. For that reason alone, it should absolutely be a private affair. I have no patience for that kind of discriminatory, exploitative backstabbing.
 
stop moving the goal posts.
they deserve the exact same rights as every one else gets.

Why is it 'moving the goalposts' to directly address the OP?

Remember when the German pilot crashed his plane into the ground due to psychotic depression? His doctor had declared him unfit to fly, yet the patient's right to privacy was deemed more important than the passengers' right to life.

In general I strongly agree in protecting individuals' right to privacy, but there surely comes a point where the greater good is served by curtailing this right in certain situations that might lead to catastrophic consequences.

The doctor - a professional and an expert who has the best interests of the patient at heart, and is objective in their assessments.

Some doctors have the best interests of their bank balance at heart though (or perhaps partisan political interests). Trump's doctor's 'healthiest president ever' medical statement didn't sound too objective to me.

Would you be against all candidates having to be evaluated by an independent medical panel who could make a pronouncement on candidate's health? This seems like a fair balance between protecting the rights of the public and the rights of the candidate.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
Some doctors have the best interests of their bank balance at heart though (or perhaps partisan political interests). Trump's doctor's 'healthiest president ever' medical statement didn't sound too objective to me.

I have a seriously hard time believing Trump is generally healthier than Obama to say nothing about the rest of the list.

Would you be against all candidates having to be evaluated by an independent medical panel who could make a pronouncement on candidate's health? This seems like a fair balance between protecting the rights of the public and the rights of the candidate.

Have NASA give them a battery of test. Those guys aren't doing much now anyway...
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Some doctors have the best interests of their bank balance at heart though (or perhaps partisan political interests). Trump's doctor's 'healthiest president ever' medical statement didn't sound too objective to me.

LOL.... I had some "shoulds" and "ideally" words in that sentence before... I edited them out. My bad. :D
Of course, with this particular example, I wouldn't take what is trumpeted before the public as representative of the private interactions. It's obviously rhetoric.


Would you be against all candidates having to be evaluated by an independent medical panel who could make a pronouncement on candidate's health? This seems like a fair balance between protecting the rights of the public and the rights of the candidate.

The way the system is currently, there are only a few requirements for becoming president: be over age 35, been a resident of the United States for 14 years, and be a natural born citizen. It sounds to me like you are suggesting another requirement: be certified to be in good health. Again, as I've said, this would be in violation of laws like the ADA, so do we want to repeal that or not? Okay, let's say we chuck things like ADA out the window and allow discrimination against people with disabilities. We add just that one requirement for the office to the list: certified to be in good health by an independent medical panel. Okay, great. Can we talk about their actual job qualifications now? I'm all for revising the qualifications for the presidency to be more of a meritocracy, but "in good health" is not something I would add. Let's add things like... I don't know... administrative experience? Foreign policy experience? Military experience?

The notion that someone might vote differently because of a medical condition just turns my mouth sour. To me, it's right up there with voting differently because someone is non-white, non-male, non-Christian, or non-heterosexual. I can't muster encouraging that. If it were possible, I'd make campaigning race-blind, sex-blind, religion-blind, and sexuality-blind. Unfortunately, some of those things are more difficult (or impossible) to keep out of the picture.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
For once you're right about something, I researched it!! But I don't think it has much effect on mental function in the first few years, say 4 years???
You have an uncanny ability to make my correction of your error reflect poorly upon me. A simple thank you would be more appropriate. (I am an expert in social graces, you know.)
 

McBell

Unbound
In most cases I would agree with you but in the case of the highest office in the country with the power to make such weighty decisions as declaring war for one example, I think there should be an exception. Not saying it should disqualify them, but we the people should know if the person we are considering for the office is physically and mentally fit to fulfill their duties.
You will know.
If they are allowed to continue running for office, they passed.
If they stop running for office, they failed.

Just like every other job with medical restrictions.
If you pass you can still get the job.
If you fail you cannot get the job.

And guess what?
the medical records are still none of the public's damn business.
 

McBell

Unbound
Give the voters the information and let us draw the line. My view is that we should have the necessary information to make an informed decision.
ah, so the president is not allowed any secrets what-so-ever, right?
Must completely 100% release any and all records with their name on it, right?
Then the public gets to decide what didn't need be released, right?


Don't see that happening.
Though I would love for the law to be passed for next presidential election.
In fact, all of congress and the Supreme Court and all their lackeys should have to as well.
Of course, we would have to put an end to the governmental "for life" appointments....
 

McBell

Unbound
Why is it 'moving the goalposts' to directly address the OP?
You need to pay better attention to what you post:
So you think an individual who voluntarily enters themselves into a contest for public office which affords them great power, wealth and prestige and the power of life and death over vast numbers of people more deserves the right to privacy than the millions of people whose life and death may rest on this person deserve the right to make a more informed judgement?

No one said a thing about the President getting more rights to privacy...
 
You need to pay better attention to what you post:

No one said a thing about the President getting more rights to privacy...

Yes, no one did. So why mention it?

In a thread about "Do voters have a right to know if the candidate is in poor health", why is it 'moving the goalposts' to discuss the right to privacy Vs the right of the voter to make an informed judgement? Is that not pretty much the crux of the issue?

I suggest Orwell's advice "Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print." as it is an impediment to thought rather than a facilitator of it.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
ah, so the president is not allowed any secrets what-so-ever, right?
Must completely 100% release any and all records with their name on it, right?
Then the public gets to decide what didn't need be released, right?


Don't see that happening.
Though I would love for the law to be passed for next presidential election.
In fact, all of congress and the Supreme Court and all their lackeys should have to as well.
Of course, we would have to put an end to the governmental "for life" appointments....

Fine with me. I think the life appointment jobs are ridiculous and take away any accountability to the public. I think supreme court nominees should be elected by the people with a limited term.
 
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