Do We Choose Our Beliefs?

[Left Coast]

The title of the thread is about beliefs, in a 'religious' forum. I assumed that philosophy, not science, was the context of the question.

Science is a part of philosophy (see: philosophy of science). My analysis remains the same whether we're talking about religious or irreligious beliefs. We don't choose them.

 

[Samana Johann]

As direct factor of arising of Saddhā (faith, confidence, suffering should be said. Upanisa Sutta

All a matter of many previous and present choices, Upanissaya (strong conditions) and their previous actions: Developing Upanissaya "understanding hardness as hardness"

Why it important to value Conditions?

Working on better and strong conditions, Upanissayapaccaya

 

[usfan]

I don't think things are as hopeless as that. We have tools (namely, reason) to help us discern whether our beliefs conform to reality, without needing any help from above.

Absolutely. I am a great 'believer' , in Reason, and the human ability to discover.

But as you know, there are many conflicting noises, drowning out the 'still small voice' of Truth. We can discover a great deal, by a sincere desire to 'know'. But, there are other unseen factors at work in this process.

He that would seriously set upon the search of truth, ought in the first place to prepare his mind with a love of it. For he that loves it not, will not take much pains to get it; nor be much concerned when he misses it. There is nobody in the commonwealth of learning who does not profess himself a lover of truth: and there is not a rational creature that would not take it amiss to be thought otherwise of. And yet, for all this, one may truly say, that there are very few lovers of truth, for truth's sake, even amongst those who persuade themselves that they are so. How a man may know whether he be so in earnest, is worth inquiry: and I think there is one unerring mark of it, viz. The not entertaining any proposition with greater assurance than the proofs it is built upon will warrant. Whoever goes beyond this measure of assent, it is plain receives not the truth in the love of it; loves not truth for truth's sake, but for some other bye-end. ~John Locke

Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. ~John Kenneth Galbraith

And ultimately, understanding is a gift from God.. and even the desire to know..

Matthew 7:7Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

 

[Left Coast]

There is an element of will, in any belief. I include non belief in that choice parameter. A rejection of a possibility is a decision about belief. Actively believing in one thing, or actively disbelieving something else is still a 'belief', that is shaped by our influences.

I think it's important to recall that disbelief is not necessarily rejection of the possibility of something. It simply means there is not sufficient evidence to warrant belief.

I still don't know how we choose any of that, though. I cannot choose to believe that something is impossible, or that something has not met its burden of proof. It is simply apparent to me from my understanding of the evidence.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I was born in a Christian family and grew up with this teaching, but at age 15 i started to look for other answers because the priest could not answer my questions in a good way. So i used 5 years to study different religions and have been Buddhist since 1997. So in my case, I chose the path/teaching i felt closest to what i believed in.(Buddhism) and did not follow the religion my parents wanted me to do.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Even the groundhog when coming up out of the ground cant choose if the season changes, it just tells the truth with its instinct, like reporting the news. In my religion a groundhog is another word for a believer or FAITH himself who must come up out of the earth and tell the people that time is eternal.

 

[1213]

....
What do you think? Do we choose our beliefs?

I have chosen to believe.

 

[Left Coast]

Absolutely. I am a great 'believer' , in Reason, and the human ability to discover.

But as you know, there are many conflicting noises, drowning out the 'still small voice' of Truth. We can discover a great deal, by a sincere desire to 'know'. But, there are other unseen factors at work in this process.

He that would seriously set upon the search of truth, ought in the first place to prepare his mind with a love of it. For he that loves it not, will not take much pains to get it; nor be much concerned when he misses it. There is nobody in the commonwealth of learning who does not profess himself a lover of truth: and there is not a rational creature that would not take it amiss to be thought otherwise of. And yet, for all this, one may truly say, that there are very few lovers of truth, for truth's sake, even amongst those who persuade themselves that they are so. How a man may know whether he be so in earnest, is worth inquiry: and I think there is one unerring mark of it, viz. The not entertaining any proposition with greater assurance than the proofs it is built upon will warrant. Whoever goes beyond this measure of assent, it is plain receives not the truth in the love of it; loves not truth for truth's sake, but for some other bye-end. ~John Locke

Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. ~John Kenneth Galbraith

And ultimately, understanding is a gift from God.. and even the desire to know..

Matthew 7:7Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

I agree with all this up to the God line. I see no good evidence for a God or that our understand comes from her/him/it.

 

[Augustus]

What do you think? Do we choose our beliefs?

Not directly, but we can influence them.

We can choose to read sources that confirm our beliefs, we can choose to read sources that challenge them.
We can use various methodologies to challenge our preconceptions and identify biases, etc.
We can choose to try to deal with contradictory information fairly.

This will always be far from perfect as humans aren't remotely rational, but better than nothing I suppose.

I think that, to some extent, we can also deliberately self-deceive but it also has significant limitations.

 

[Left Coast]

I have chosen to believe.

You've chosen to believe what? Could you choose to believe otherwise?

 

[George-ananda]

What do you think? Do we choose our beliefs?

Yes and no. As beliefs in the spiritual and religious realm are generally not determinable through objective reasoning alone, there becomes a lot of play for subjective preferences and dislikes to play their part.

I try to respect objective reasoning myself but in time subjective preferences and dislikes probably affect me.

 

[Left Coast]

Not directly, but we can influence them.

We can choose to read sources that confirm our beliefs, we can choose to read sources that challenge them.
We can use various methodologies to challenge our preconceptions and identify biases, etc.
We can choose to try to deal with contradictory information fairly.

This will always be far from perfect as humans aren't remotely rational, but better than nothing I suppose.

I think that, to some extent, we can also deliberately self-deceive but it also has significant limitations.

Agreed! We can definitely assess our beliefs to see if they're rational, or delude ourselves through bias into thinking that our beliefs are justified when they really aren't.

At the end of the day, though, if we are genuinely convinced of something, we can't choose to believe differently, even if we recognize our beliefs are irrational. This is the case, I've found, with surprising number of people who believe in God or other supernatural things. They know their belief is not rational or based on any objectively good evidence, but they believe nonetheless.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Not sure about active (religious) beliefs but I think for some of us we have many more disbeliefs - reliant on as much relevant information as we deem necessary - such that what remains tends to form our beliefs (or non-beliefs to be more accurate). Hence perhaps why atheism (or agnosticism) is seen as the default for many when they just cannot accept any religious beliefs.

I think it likely we deal in probabilities, and for many, the evidence all around us points to a creator whilst this same evidence for others just doesn't - or in my case, leaves the door open a wee bit for a possible creative force/energy. The sheer number of different beliefs prompted my suspicions about religion (as a child) - which might have done the opposite in another - and nothing has changed over my life. Not being indoctrinated or religiously 'educated' has probably aided this. I would have thought that believing is more associated with education or indoctrination, and/or culture for most rather than actively choosing a belief (so passive acceptance). How many people actually challenge their inherited beliefs? Not believing often means taking shortcuts (guilty as charged), which is almost inevitable, unless one wants to spend all day every day studying the assertions and evidence of all others claiming to have 'the truth'. Many other beliefs no doubt come directly from our experiences and the information we process, and form naturally over time.

Anyone who claims a religious belief and also claims atheism is a belief (rather than non-belief), must necessarily have the same number of beliefs then as an atheist, with both believing that one of all these beliefs (but not the same one) is correct - because they must believe that all other religious beliefs are false other than their own.

 

[sun rise]

..sorta..

But mostly, our 'beliefs' choose us. That is, they are the result of influences in our lives.

Facts and empirical evidence play a small part in anyone's beliefs.

There are no empirical facts to justify belief.. it is a conclusion based on life factors:

1. Education/Indoctrination
2. Upbringing
3. Peers/freinds/family
4. Personal experience
5. Choice

Many factors combine to mold a worldview in a person. 'Absolute Facts', are seldom factors in that list.

Usually, at some point in our lives, we pause and question whether the things we believe are valid.. some may be driven to question everything, while others skate by on their Indoctrination or opinions of those they admire (or hate, as an opposing belief!).

I concur. I'd just add that the weight of those factors is different for different people. Some never question their upbringing. Some have had profound personal experiences. Etc.

 

[usfan]

I think it's important to recall that disbelief is not necessarily rejection of the possibility of something

Disbelief implies saying, 'no, i reject that as a possibility.'

Skepticism may doubt, or reserve judgement for better information, but a rejection of a possibility is a positive claim. The person is concluding something, not just reserving judgment.

 

[sun rise]

Agreed! We can definitely assess our beliefs to see if they're rational, or delude ourselves through bias into thinking that our beliefs are justified when they really aren't.

At the end of the day, though, if we are genuinely convinced of something, we can't choose to believe differently, even if we recognize our beliefs are irrational. This is the case, I've found, with surprising number of people who believe in God or other supernatural things. They know their belief is not rational or based on any objectively good evidence, but they believe nonetheless.

This comment is based on the idea that rationality and objective evidence is the best. Not everyone agrees.

 

[usfan]

I agree with all this up to the God line. I see no good evidence for a God or that our understand comes from her/him/it.

..perhaps you just lack information, to come to an informed conclusion..

 

[Twilight Hue]

Several times recently in conversations with theists, they have said things about choosing what we believe. It's almost as though in their minds beliefs are like clothes in the closet. I go to the closet, and I could pick the red t shirt or the green t shirt, so I'll pick the red. Or perhaps, I know my significant other likes the red more than the green, so I'll pick the red one to please him.

In my experience, this is not how belief works at all. If to believe means to be convinced something is true or real, then we don't choose our beliefs at all. We are presented with evidence and whatever interpretation of that evidence is most convincing to us is what we believe. We can't stop believing that until something intervenes - we see new evidence, or we realize our thought process was illogical before, etc. I can't simply wake up and choose a different belief this morning. I am genuinely convinced of what I believe (and don't).

What do you think? Do we choose our beliefs?

We choose to accept a belief , so in that context we do.

One thing for sure is we can't keep our beliefs .

 

[sun rise]

I agree with all this up to the God line. I see no good evidence for a God or that our understand comes from her/him/it.

I mostly agree with that. The closest the rational mind can come to deciding if God exists or not is Pascal's wager which is also subject to dispute.

 

[usfan]

I concur. I'd just add that the weight of those factors is different for different people. Some never question their upbringing. Some have had profound personal experiences. Etc.

Agreed.. and some nod like bobbleheads at every propaganda meme they were indoctrinated with..