Do we have free will?

[Rainbow Mage]

I've been questioning this lately too. I've come to see the world in a very Hindu way. I see many things of this world as an illusion, the soul as the true self, love and companionship as true emotions, etc. If the divine is in all, that means that when we act, really the divine is acting, so we're not acting at all, so we might think we have free will, but that's just our self telling us that. What do you think? I hope I didn't confuse anybody, LOL

 

[YmirGF]

I've been questioning this lately too. I've come to see the world in a very Hindu way. I see many things of this world as an illusion, the soul as the true self, love and companionship as true emotions, etc. If the divine is in all, that means that when we act, really the divine is acting, so we're not acting at all, so we might think we have free will, but that's just our self telling us that. What do you think? I hope I didn't confuse anybody, LOL

I am not big on the concept of divinity as divinity implies that there are things that are not divine. Otoh, If all are an expression of that divinity then it does tend to water down the concept to begin with. I do have free will to do whatever I please, when I please, however that does not mean that I am free from the consequences given actions may well precipitate. Personally, I believe that belief in divinity, in any form, creates barriers in the mind of the believer that need not exist. I am more inclined to accept the responsibility for my own actions than to offload them on to another, no matter how grandiose. In my opinion, thinking that one is acting on divine will merely sinks one deeper into the fertile soil of fanaticism.

 

[Twig pentagram]

I've been questioning this lately too. I've come to see the world in a very Hindu way. I see many things of this world as an illusion, the soul as the true self, love and companionship as true emotions, etc. If the divine is in all, that means that when we act, really the divine is acting, so we're not acting at all, so we might think we have free will, but that's just our self telling us that. What do you think? I hope I didn't confuse anybody, LOL

I think we choose to do some things, and we have to do others.

 

[Storm]

Other.

We are manifestations of God. Its will and ours are one.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Regardless whether free-will is an illusion or not, as long as it is untestable, the illusion seems convincing enough.

 

[kaisersose]

I believe freewill is apparent. It looks like it exists, but it does not. The things that happen to us - on closer scrutiny - have very little to do with our own will. This does not however, mean there is someone else (God) controlling our actions.

In the final chapter of the Gita, there are two verses that have always intrigued me. Rough translation follows -

- What you do not wish to do, you will do inspite of your wish, fettered by the duties born of your nature.

- In the hearts of all beings, resides the Lord, making them act as if they were mounted on a machine.

Very odd, considering they come at the end of nearly 700 verses where Arjuna is advised to act, which would imply free-will and then abruptly we have these two verses, which are orthogonal to the concept of free-will.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

It seems that the Gita is saying that our free will, or what we percieve as our acting, is actually God acting. Remember when Krishna said God is both a life-giver and a destroyer?

 

[Eliot Wild]

The answer to this question, at least as it applies to me, is dependant upon how much vodka I have drank before making any particular decision.

For example, there have been some occassions when I have known for certain upon waking up next to a particularly nasty new "friend", that the decision to bring her home the night before was in no way made of my own freewill. Some other agent was obviously acting through me at the time.

 

[Thief]

You say what you what ...you do want you want.
You think you are in control.
You think you have choices to make....yes you do.

All actions are a compromise.
Nothing you say or do is absolute.

You cannot leave your body when you feel like it.
It won't matter, the pain and suffering...you are stuck where you are.

If you cannot escape your flesh now...when you think you are in control...
What makes you think you will be able to...when you die?

We all fail...sooner or later.
We have greater and lesser abilities among us.
Should we not anticipate the same in the next life?
We compromise at every effort...here and now.
We will do so again...in the next life.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Without evidence of an outside agent acting upon our will, the default is free will.

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm with Storm. Yes, we do have free will, but it is identical with God's will.

The difference is that our free will isn't absolute; often we do things apparently against our will, for whatever reason. God's will is absolute, on the other hand.

 

[Willamena]

I've been questioning this lately too. I've come to see the world in a very Hindu way. I see many things of this world as an illusion, the soul as the true self, love and companionship as true emotions, etc. If the divine is in all, that means that when we act, really the divine is acting, so we're not acting at all, so we might think we have free will, but that's just our self telling us that. What do you think? I hope I didn't confuse anybody, LOL

The image presented by "divine is in all" is fine and appropriate --regardless, "free will" exists where responsibility rises up as true concept.

Illusions exist.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I agree that free will is in line with the divine will, so I agree with you riverwolf, except I'm not willing to say free will is an actual true reality, just a subjective one created by the human condition and the self-ego

 

[Thief]

I'm not buying it.

If the free will of Man is the same as God's...
then that argument about God's 'disposition' comes up again.

War?...for starters.

 

[YmirGF]

I'm not buying it.

If the free will of Man is the same as God's...
then that argument about God's 'disposition' comes up again.

War?...for starters.

Personally, I think that saying our will is God's will is getting several steps above our pay grades, but that's just me. Once one convinces themselves that they are doing "god's will" there is no longer any need for reason nor any need for personal responsibility.

 

[Storm]

I'm not buying it.

If the free will of Man is the same as God's...
then that argument about God's 'disposition' comes up again.

War?...for starters.

Haven't you ever been conflicted?

It's not as simple as "God wants what *I* want." That would be utter hubris. It's that we're all aspects of God, expressing different things.

 

[YmirGF]

It's that we're all aspects of God, expressing different things.

Sadly, the contradictions that arise from this stance would be laughable if they didn't have such grave consequences.

I do not "know" that any god(s) exist. I know that I do. Those who are saying otherwise are simply playing games.

 

[Beta]

We seem to have total free-will to choose life or death Deut.30v19.
From then on our free will becomes limited.

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm not buying it.

If the free will of Man is the same as God's...
then that argument about God's 'disposition' comes up again.

War?...for starters.

Why should God have a disposition... or if God does, why should we know it?

 

[Riverwolf]

Personally, I think that saying our will is God's will is getting several steps above our pay grades, but that's just me. Once one convinces themselves that they are doing "god's will" there is no longer any need for reason nor any need for personal responsibility.

Why not?