Do We Need Faith?

[Audie]

Because when science figures out it has the wrong idea, it changes its claims. Isn't that neato?

For the record, I thing "getting rid of religion" is a terrible idea. Sure, there are interpersonally destructive aspects to religion. But there are some positives too. Some people find it indispensable. It would be wrong to take it away from them. Removing religion's power privileges that it's enjoyed for centuries has been done and is still being done, and that's good enough for me.

Besides, religion is fascinating. The world would be more boring if we got rid of it altogether.

There's religions that have called for
an end to art, music, dance, math beond the
most basic arithmetic, political savants who
want government abolished.
Ban the booze
Ban the blacks
Ban the Beatles, and the bomb,
burn the vanities and books.

Most of that seems .motivated by some
urge for "purity" which psychology others
can work out. Not that one needs religion to
make them want to ban things.


I like our dragons and my kitchen god.
Doesn't mean I think its really supernatural.
Religion has contributed a lot of good.
Goodness knows it's had time and talent to
do a lot.


I see most of it as superstition and waste
of time- or worse- but it's not my business to
tell others what to do. Steer clear of interfering in my life, and coexistence is fine.

Which is of course NOT the same as
compatible with me or with science.

I'd live with an alligator in the house before
I'd let any of several species of religionists in.

 

[osgart]

I would say it's important to have faith in reason and sense. It's important to have faith that things can be done.

It's also important to have faith in the fact that justice is a need so that people are able to get what they need through honest effort.

If everything were arbitrary and senseless, then everything in existence wouldn't amount to much.

It's better to know, then to always be in a state of having faith though.

For religion and God, why would anyone mess with faith. Either you know, or you don't.

Knowing is superior to faith. But when there is nothing and you are just starting out, faith can be an ally.

Faith is putting trust and confidence in someone or something. If we couldn't do that, everything would collapse.

Trust, justice, deserve, confidence, knowledge, those are things we need, and to have faith in those things is a good thing. But those things are created, discovered and instilled, they don't just happen naturally.

Faith comes last I think, learning, knowing, and doing comes first. You put your faith in the knowns.

 

[cladking]

What is seen and what is there are not
necessarily the same thing.

And the holiest of thou only and always see exactly what's there, eh?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm sure that Atheist would argue,

Of course. The atheist. How cliche.
The world isn't Christians vs atheists.

 

[ChristineM]

Second, it highlights the flawed thinking Atheism promotes.

What flawed thinking? Atheiem promotes one thought, there is no evidence for god so why believe... Nothing more, nothing less. Anything rlse is down to the individual and guess what, even religion has individuals

why not get rid of science?

I note that when people say that they say it using various aspects of science to do so. Which i think shows much hypocrisy

I'm sure that Atheist would argue, "...but we need science. We don't need religion."

Of course you don't "need" science, you could always live in a cave, the furthest you could communicate depending on how loud you can shout and die before you are 30.

Personally I don't think we need religion but many people like it, so keep it for them, as long as it doesn't impose itself where its not wanted.

And im atheiest so maybe you argument doesn't apply to all (or many) atheists

"good science has done"

Well you posted this thread.

but good religion has done much good.

And it's also done much bad.

dare say, more good than science.

Oh i seriously doubt that. One scientist is accredited with saving over a billion lives, when religion can match that I'll consider your statement.


So do we need faith. I don't think need is valid. More like do some people like to have their faith... Yes, but need, no

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The conflict is real; it's just not universal to all religion.

It's a major problem with some of the mainstream religions, though.

I believe in this situation we must just be specific. Like on this side of the oceans it's largely and mostly coming from Christians. It's not Wiccans, Buddhists, Hindus, Satanists, indigenous, it's Christians.
And at this point in politics we can safely say Evangelicals because they are the ones doing the most damage. It might even get other Christians to start more actively pruning their own bad fruit out to be more specific.

 

[Audie]

I would say it's important to have faith in reason and sense. It's important to have faith that things can be done.

It's also important to have faith in the fact that justice is a need so that people are able to get what they need through honest effort.

If everything were arbitrary and senseless, then everything in existence wouldn't amount to much.

It's better to know, then to always be in a state of having faith though.

For religion and God, why would anyone mess with faith. Either you know, or you don't.

Knowing is superior to faith. But when there is nothing and you are just starting out, faith can be an ally.

Faith is putting trust and confidence in someone or something. If we couldn't do that, everything would collapse.

Trust, justice, deserve, confidence, knowledge, those are things we need, and to have faith in those things is a good thing. But those things are created, discovered and instilled, they don't just happen naturally.

Faith comes last I think, learning, knowing, and doing comes first. You put your faith in the knowns.

If it's known you don't need faith.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Seriously?

If you don't want to answer or cannot answer, I'm not sure why you responded.

 

[Audie]

If you don't want to answer or cannot answer, I'm not sure why you responded.

Ha.

 

[Truth in love]

I was moved to make this thread in response to a question raised by an Atheist.
"Since there is so much confliction [contradictions] in religion, why not get rid of all religion?"
That's an interesting question in more ways than one.
First, it reminds me of the foretold attack by the collation of nations, on all religion... starting with Babylon the Great - the World Empire of false religion.
Second, it highlights the flawed thinking Atheism promotes.

My response to the question though, is this.
Since there are so many conflicting ideas.... not to mention, unknown, and wrong conclusions in science, why not get rid of science?
Of course, I don't think that is a reasonable proposal, but just showing the flaw in the reasoning.

I'm sure that Atheist would argue, "...but we need science. We don't need religion."
Really? We need both. well, at least in the understanding of religion in the context promoted in the question.
Then he will go on to mention all the "good science has done"... leaving out all the bad, of course.

Religion hasn't done any good right? It's good for nothing, right?
Even bad religion has done some good. ... but good religion has done much good... perhaps, I dare say, more good than science.
However, good science and good religion has done quite a lot of good. So both are needed. Though, it is evident to me that if good science were to go, good religion would still be a force for good.... lasting forever, but take away good religion, and...

Faith is only needed if we want to function.

 

[SalixIncendium]

[

Faith is only needed if we want to function.

Either you're saying I cannot function, my functionality is limited, or I'm an exception. Please let me know which I am ifrom your perspective.

 

[Truth in love]

[

Either you're saying I cannot function, my functionality is limited, or I'm an exception. Please let me know which I am ifrom your perspective.

Faith is belief. The thought of anticipation that action will have a result.


So I turn on a light switch with faith that the light will turn on.


I believed I could get into college, acted on it and then got in.

I’m growing a small garden because I beloved I could.
If we don’t believe we don’t act and if we don’t action we really are not getting anything done thus not really functioning.

 

[sun rise]

Faith is belief. The thought of anticipation that action will have a result.


So I turn on a light switch with faith that the light will turn on.


I believed I could get into college, acted on it and then got in.

I’m growing a small garden because I beloved I could.
If we don’t believe we don’t act and if we don’t action we really are not getting anything done thus not really functioning.

It's too bad that the same word is used for "faith" - the faith you wrote of in this post and "faith" in the sense of religion. The kind of faith in this post is essential for any sort of life.

 

[sun rise]

there is no evidence

More precisely "there is no evidence that you accept" because I have a great deal of evidence that is utterly convincing to me but of course not to you.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Faith is belief. The thought of anticipation that action will have a result.


So I turn on a light switch with faith that the light will turn on.


I believed I could get into college, acted on it and then got in.

I’m growing a small garden because I beloved I could.
If we don’t believe we don’t act and if we don’t action we really are not getting anything done thus not really functioning.

I act based on knowledge. If belief works for you, good on you. I don't act on belief.

 

[cladking]

It's too bad that the same word is used for "faith" - the faith you wrote of in this post and "faith" in the sense of religion. The kind of faith in this post is essential for any sort of life.

I seriously doubt any other species has faith or would understand any kind of abstraction at all.

Belief and faith are the same thing for all practical purposes. Would you put water and grounds in the machine without the belief that adding electricity will produce coffee? Humans act on belief alone so without belief we are moribund. Of course much belief is held as models and models of knowledge which aren't belief if they are actually understood.

 

[Truth in love]

I act based on knowledge. If belief works for you, good on you. I don't act on belief.

Did you get that knowledge before you acted on faith?

 

[Truth in love]

It's too bad that the same word is used for "faith" - the faith you wrote of in this post and "faith" in the sense of religion. The kind of faith in this post is essential for any sort of life.

It’s the same thing.
People have and act on faith in matters of science, religion, politics, sports, and writing a new app for a phone.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Did you get that knowledge before you acted on faith?

Yes. I haven't acted on "faith."

 

[Truth in love]

Yes.

How how do you actually know the light switch works before you try it?