Do we pride ourselves on not knowing?

[Ringer]

It almost seems as though we pride ourselves with the supposed fact that we can't know truth instead of the freedom that truth can bring. It's as if truth has been subverted by agnosticism. Skepticism is the hallmark of university campuses. It's almost mind boggeling that you can pay for and spend 4+ at an institution and be pummeled with the idea that are smart enough to know that we don't know. On one hand, I can understand this reasoning. If we claim we don't know the truth, it gives us reason to continue to search.

I've heard from many who claim that we all have the truth because once you interpret something, that's YOUR truth. In other words, truth is relative. I'd like to know what you guys think about absolute truth? Is there a way to know such things or is it all relative, differing from person to person? Does it really exist? What are the implications of raising a generation in which we teach that we cannot know truth. Any finally, since I see truth from a Christian perspective, what do you think Jesus means when he says things such as:

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

"If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Let the games begin.

 

[Willamena]

Agnosticism comes in quite a few flavours, but my favourite is the one with the cherry on TOP.

 

[Willamena]

I've heard from many who claim that we all have the truth because once you interpret something, that's YOUR truth. In other words, truth is relative. I'd like to know what you guys think about absolute truth?

Everything, even absolute things, are relative to an observer; and relative things are absolutely relative. That you have one take on the truth (and your take in itself is not "truth") and I have another is the absolute truth.

Is there a way to know such things or is it all relative, differing from person to person?

There is a relative way to know it.

What are the implications of raising a generation in which we teach that we cannot know truth.

Hopefully, we don't actually teach that.

 

[doppelganger]

"Absolute truth" is that which is perceived as absolutely true. So of course there is absolute truth. It changes and varies depending on perspective though.

 

[Somkid]

I could quote Buddhist texts all day that sight the truth and show people how to live in peace and harmony with out craving and suffering to me that is much more important than "follow me and do as I do say what I say". The biggest difference between Buddhism and most religions is we invite you to come and see if it doesn't work out for you well, its ok there is no punishment or eternal damnation involved. Other religions say "come and believe because you have no choice this is how it is". In many cases we do not know the truth 500 years we knew less truth and 2000 years ago we even knew less, we do our best to get by and discover truth along the way. I would not say the 12 years I spent in university were a waste in anyway and I continue to further my education at every opportunity because it brings me closer to the truth or in some cases helps me to form a theory of what might be true.

 

[Ringer]

"Absolute truth" is that which is perceived as absolutely true. So of course there is absolute truth. It changes and varies depending on perspective though.

So when Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth..." according to what you are saying, He is only what we perceive Him to be at that moment? If that's the case, wouldn't that mean that He is not immutable which is an attribute that given to the Christian God?

 

[zookeeper]

We have no power over truth. We're all just looking for it. When we believe we have found it we hunker down and share our findings with those around us. This forum is a great resource for that! On that note, would anyone like a copy of the Book of Mormon?

 

[Rolling_Stone]

It almost seems as though we pride ourselves with the supposed fact that we can't know truth instead of the freedom that truth can bring. It's as if truth has been subverted by agnosticism. Skepticism is the hallmark of university campuses. It's almost mind boggeling that you can pay for and spend 4+ at an institution and be pummeled with the idea that are smart enough to know that we don't know. On one hand, I can understand this reasoning. If we claim we don't know the truth, it gives us reason to continue to search.

I've heard from many who claim that we all have the truth because once you interpret something, that's YOUR truth. In other words, truth is relative. I'd like to know what you guys think about absolute truth? Is there a way to know such things or is it all relative, differing from person to person? Does it really exist? What are the implications of raising a generation in which we teach that we cannot know truth. Any finally, since I see truth from a Christian perspective, what do you think Jesus means when he says things such as:

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

"If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Let the games begin.

Any seeking of Ultimate Truth through intellect alone must end either in agnosticism of some kind or mind-constructed formula. Speculation has its utility in training the human mind and helping to keep before it the idea of something Ultimate, something beyond itself and towards which it must turn, but it can only point vaguely or feel gropingly towards it. It cannot enter into and know it. As long as we remain in the domain of the intellect only, in an impartial pondering and constant throwing up of ideas, the formulation of this or that philosophical belief, opinion or conclusion is all that can be done. Any conclusion arrived at would be only speculative; it would not give the decisive experience or the spiritual certitude for which the soul is seeking. If the intellect is our highest possible instrument and there is no other means of arriving at supraphysical Truth, then agnosticism must be our ultimate attitude. Things may be known to some degree, but Ultimate Reality must remain forever unknowable.

We can know and enter into the Ultimate Reality only inasmuch we access a greater consciousness beyond material mind and its consciousness. If we can get that, intellectual speculation and reasoning necessarily falls into a secondary place. Philosophy, intellectual expression of the Truth may remain, but mainly as a means of expressing this greater discovery and as much of its contents as be expressed in mental terms to those who still live in mental intelligence.

 

[Draka]

I'd like to know what you guys think about absolute truth? Is there a way to know such things or is it all relative, differing from person to person?

Truth, when dealing with the non-physical/supernatural, very much becomes subjective to the person analyzing their own personal revelations and experiences. Since everyone's are different, then their idea of "truth" is different.

Does it really exist?

I don't believe that anyone can claim anything as absolute truth. I don't thiink that we are near enough advanced to ever understand or grasp what the total "absolute truth" is. At this point in our evolution, we are all just making guesses based on our own revelations and experiences.

What are the implications of raising a generation in which we teach that we cannot know truth.

I think it's realistic. I think that the implications would be that we raised children who learn to question and keep their minds open. A more accepting and reasonable generation.

Any finally, since I see truth from a Christian perspective, what do you think Jesus means when he says things such as:

I can't answer this since I don't believe the man really existed. Even if there was a man that resembles the description in the bible, I don't believe he was all that you believe him to be.

 

[doppelganger]

So when Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth..." according to what you are saying, He is only what we perceive Him to be at that moment?

If they changed the name of the street on which you live, could you still find your way home?

If that's the case, wouldn't that mean that He is not immutable which is an attribute that given to the Christian God?

If attributes are "given" to the "Christian God," then "immutable" certainly can't be one of its attributes.

 

[doppelganger]

We have no power over truth. We're all just looking for it. When we believe we have found it we hunker down and share our findings with those around us.

It's all gravy.

 

[w00t]

One person's truth is another's heresy!

 

[rajakrsna]

One person's truth is another's heresy!

White lies are often mistaken for truth.

 

[w00t]

I think doubt is much more healthy than certainty!

 

[yossarian22]

I think doubt is much more healthy than certainty!

Tell that to the guy who doubted the effectiveness of antibiotics.

 

[w00t]

Tell that to the guy who doubted the effectiveness of antibiotics.

We know the effect of antibiotics, the existence of God is unknowable at this time!

 

[rajakrsna]

We know the effect of antibiotics, the existence of God is unknowable at this time!

God is inconceivable/transcendental.

 

[ChristineES]

I think agnostics actually pride themselves in admitting they don't know.

 

[Godfather89]

It almost seems as though we pride ourselves with the supposed fact that we can't know truth instead of the freedom that truth can bring. It's as if truth has been subverted by agnosticism.

Skepticism is the hallmark of university campuses. It's almost mind boggling that you can pay for and spend 4+ at an institution and be pummeled with the idea that are smart enough to know that we don't know.

On one hand, I can understand this reasoning. If we claim we don't know the truth, it gives us reason to continue to search...

1. Truth and Freedom go hand in hand... We build models of the world and we want those models in our mind to be as close to the truth as possible. It would be a lie if I told you: "Go up to the second story of your home and jump and flap your arms and you will fly." We know we cant fly with our bodies <--- Thats an absolute truth right there. All the big beliefs of the world whether it be Major Religions or Secular thinking all have an agnostic quality, could it be that The World (Society At Large) is very suggestible and The Powers That Be keep the truth for themselves and tell us lies covered up to appear as truth? I would say so!

Hence when people take out the "A" in agnosticism you arrive to what I am and what you are deep down inside, thats why most people are not gnostic because, most people still find sanity in numbers and when you do you become still part of the herd and still part of society and because of that we are suggestible some more than others -- This is why I believe Agnosticism has been substituted for truth. Hell read my signature, its obvious but some people would disagree with that.

2. I take philosophy class in this semester its critical thinking and he talks about the mind and through critical thinking can we uncover some truths in the physical world.

3. We are ignorant and some of us are even ignorant of the fact we are ignorant. Thats why Socrates is big in my books; The Wisest of Philosophers admitting his own Awareness that he is unaware of the truth, but through becoming aware of this fact can we begin to search for truth.

 

[doppelganger]

The absolutely Maximum is absolutely and actually all things which can be (and is so free of all opposition that the Minimum coincides with it), it is beyond both all affirmation and all negation. And it is not, as well as is, all that which is conceived to be; and it is, as well as is not, all that which is conceived not to be. But it is a given thing in such way that it is all things; and it is all things in such way that it is no thing . . .

For a man - even one very well versed in learning - will attain unto nothing more perfect than to be found to be most learned in the ignorance which is distinctively his.

- De Docta Ignorantia, Nicholas of Cusa -philosophical father of modern Astronomy and Relativity.