CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
Your defense of Levite's ethnic concerns.
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Do We Really Need This Kind of Bigotry?
- Thread starter metis
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Your defense of Levite's ethnic concerns.
Which were never ethnic to begin with?
I can tell you that you misunderstand Levite, and I ask you to read my expansion of the previous post (#40, the last one on the previous page - it happened right a couple of minutes ago) to see if you understand my own stance better now.
But sure, if it is important to you to brand me a bigot or whatever, far from me to deny you such a need. Go ahead and ignore the facts. I guess I can appreciate the irony.
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
Are they religious?
As I understand them, yes, it is fair to call them religious concerns. Although "communal" might be a better word.
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
The girl changed her religion and decided to join another community, so tell me how it is an "intermarriage".
I did already on post #33. Except that I don't know how you know or learned that she decided to leave the Jewish community.
Indeed. One would think that to be clear, since the Jewish People are not an ethnic group (the tired cry of "antisemitism" not withstanding).
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
There was no interfaith marriage.
Poeticus
| abhyAvartin |
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
She converted.
Poeticus
| abhyAvartin |
Not from a Muslim perspective, perhaps. But Malka's husband will, reasonably enough, be perceived as a "goy", while Malka is more than likely to remain being perceived as a member of the Jewish People. She may have converted to Muslim beliefs, but she still has a Jewish family and is still a member of the Jewish community. Her history with them will not simply vanish with no consequences - and I understand, albeit with no true evidence, that she has not chosen to deny or avoid her Jewish family.
More to the point, she can still reasonably expect to have the Jewish community's recognition and support, albeit probably with some degree of unease, relutance and, yes, even conflict. It is a fact that mixed marriages are seen with considerable dislike among many or most in the Jewish community.
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
How? Please tell me how when two Muslims marry it is magically an interfaith marriage.
In this case, because there is still commitment of the Jewish faith toward one of the spouses.
And you still want to claim that it's not an ethnicity? Luis, you make no sense.
...In other words, "many or most" Jews are racist.
Poeticus
| abhyAvartin |
Interfaith marriages (unless they involve the follow-through of a conversion) are radically looked down upon in Muslim households, on the other hand. A Kafir dating a Muslimah is something so abominable to certain rigorists of various flavors of Sunni Islam, for example, that such a venture may conclude in the backward, socio-cultural act of killing in the sake of honor.
A conversion-for-marriage is a reality of interfaith marriage. EDIT: I retract this notion. You are correct. In absolute terms, two people of the same faith getting married would not---logically---be an interfaith marriage, regardless of whether there was an agreement of a conversion-for-marriage prior to the finalizing of marriage.
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I sure do.
I am sorry that you think so, but I have no idea of why you do.
...In other words, "many or most" Jews are racist.
That is what you say, not what I believe to be true.
You're the one who said it. You're also the one who is all over the place on whether Jewishness is an ethnicity or not. But Jewishness certainly seems to be defined quite similarly to an ethnicity or "race", if you will. So if a Jewish person is opposed to "intermarriage", then it is akin to racism, if not outright racism.
I'm just following this to its logical conclusion. You can play games all you want.
Beyond that, it is such an aberrant event that most Muslims seem to actually forget of it as a possibility when asked about freedom of marriage in Islam.
I have several times been told that Muslims are free to marry as they please, sometimes with the qualifier "as long as it is to another Muslim or Person of the Book", meaning a Jewish or Christian person.
But further research eventually shows that it is true for Muslim men, but not for women. Muslimahs are expected to either renounce the faith before marrying non-Muslim men.
Same-sex Muslim marriages, of course, are literally unheard of.
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