Do you believe 11th September 2001 attacks was a conspiracy

[Lars]

My favorite conspiracy is this movie from 1999, The Matrix. If you turn your monitor upside down. You can see that Neo`s passport expires on 11th September 2001.

You have to pause fast though. Immediately when the files pops up, once his grin is over. Just press "Spacebar over and over til you see it. Then turn your screen upside down. And you will see.
1:17

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Do you believe 11th September 2001 attacks was a conspiracy?

At best it was a LIHOP.

 

[Viker]

There are always people conspiring against others. Some are willing to do harm to further an agenda. Some do harm without intent to do so. We often never know until it's too late.

Someone conspired against the US then, that much we already know. Everything else is speculation filled with more agendas. Conspiracy is a fact of life.

 

[Estro Felino]

The word "conspiracy theorist" is inappropriate , because as a jurist, I learnt from my Penal Law Professor that any crime is a conspiracy.
If there were no conspiracy, there would be no crime, and nobody would be arrested.

So yes...As a jurist I do doubt anything.

I am thinking of gatekeepers. It is a term that is already accepted in criminology. It deals with people who are paid to provide with information, which leads to a sensible truth, to cover up the truth.

 

[rosends]

no one argues that it wasn't a conspiracy. The question is "conspiracy by whom?" It wasn't the work of a single person.

"a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful."

 

[Martin]

Yes, a conspiracy by Bin Laden et Al.

 

[Nimos]

My favorite conspiracy is this movie from 1999, The Matrix. If you turn your monitor upside down. You can see that Neo`s passport expires on 11th September 2001.

You have to pause fast though. Immediately when the files pops up, once his grin is over. Just press "Spacebar over and over til you see it. Then turn your screen upside down. And you will see.
1:17

Some of the things surrounding 9/11 is really weird, but whether its a conspiracy or just a complete failure of the intelligence service in the US I don't know and we will probably never know, just as with JFK.
But regardless of that, I still think that one of the most weirdest things about it, which is not so much about whether its a conspiracy or not, is how quickly they got rid of all the rubble from the collapse. Because if im not mistaken high rise buildings like this have never collapsed due to fire before, so one would think that it would be extremely interesting for those working in the building industry to learn from this so they can improve on it, in future buildings.

But I don't know if any learning books on building designs got updated with anything from this event or not? But can't help notice how much effort is put into figuring out what happened when a plane crash, yet when three massive buildings collapses due to fire and one of them in less than an hour, no one seem especially interesting in figure out why and how to improve them. But then again maybe they did, im not that much into skyscraper design and construction to be honest

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do you believe 11th September 2001 attacks was a conspiracy?

At best it was a LIHOP.

What is a LIHOP?

 

[Stevicus]

What is a LIHOP?

The Long Island House of Pancakes?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Because if im not mistaken high rise buildings like this have never collapsed due to fire before,

None of those buildings collapsed from fire.
No books were updated because fires didn't bring them down, and certainly on it's own in an hour. Did you forget a large airplane slammed into two of those building? That's why books on architecture haven't been updated.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What is a LIHOP?

Let it happen on purpose. That a few elements within the US government knew before and let it happen, because it could protentional good for them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Long Island House of Pancakes?

Must be.
This is why it's bad form to use acronyms without defining them. Because LIHOP is let it hang out proudly.

 

[Martin]

Let it happen on purpose. That a few elements within the US government knew before and let it happen, because it could protentional good for them.

And what good was that exactly?

 

[exchemist]

Some of the things surrounding 9/11 is really weird, but whether its a conspiracy or just a complete failure of the intelligence service in the US I don't know and we will probably never know, just as with JFK.
But regardless of that, I still think that one of the most weirdest things about it, which is not so much about whether its a conspiracy or not, is how quickly they got rid of all the rubble from the collapse. Because if im not mistaken high rise buildings like this have never collapsed due to fire before, so one would think that it would be extremely interesting for those working in the building industry to learn from this so they can improve on it, in future buildings.

But I don't know if any learning books on building designs got updated with anything from this event or not? But can't help notice how much effort is put into figuring out what happened when a plane crash, yet when three massive buildings collapses due to fire and one of them in less than an hour, no one seem especially interesting in figure out why and how to improve them. But then again maybe they did, im not that much into skyscraper design and construction to be honest

Because it was immediately obvious why the buildings collapsed: structural steel loses its strength at the temperatures generated. Since no realistic building regulation could possibly enable a skyscraper to withstand being crashed into by a fully fuelled airliner, it would be a waste of time to regulate on the basis of this incident. There were full expert reports written about all this, which are in the public domain. If you have doubts, just read them.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

And what good was that exactly?

I don't know! But it is possible to give some reasonable guesses. I don't believe in LIHOP, but I wouldn't rule it out.

 

[Nimos]

None of those buildings collapsed from fire.
No books were updated because fires didn't bring them down, and certainly on it's own in an hour. Did you forget a large airplane slammed into two of those building? That's why books on architecture haven't been updated.

No I haven't forgotten

But still doesn't seem like something that would bring down a steel building of that size to me. But again, im not qualified to answer that so its just my unqualified opinion

Again, not especially in support of a conspiracy or anything, Ill leave that to people that know more about these things and care to spend time on it

 

[exchemist]

None of those buildings collapsed from fire.
No books were updated because fires didn't bring them down, and certainly on it's own in an hour. Did you forget a large airplane slammed into two of those building? That's why books on architecture haven't been updated.

It was the fire, actually. The steel lost its strength, and got twisted by non-uniform thermal expansion. It's all here:
World Trade Center: Reasons Behind the Failure of Building After 9/11 Attack - The Constructor

The key passage is this: "Thus, structural steel failed because of two variables. The first one is due to the loss of strength of steel because of the temperature of the fire. The second one is the loss of structural stability because of the twisting of the steel from the non-uniformity in the fire temperatures."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No I haven't forgotten

But still doesn't seem like something that would bring down a steel building of that size to me. But again, im not qualified to answer that so its just my unqualified opinion

Again, not especially in support of a conspiracy or anything, Ill leave that to people that know more about these things and care to spend time on it

The Trade Towers were slammed into by two large aircraft, amd after that damage was done the massive fires did the rest. WTC7 was pummeled by debris and burned for hours.
You don't have to be an expert. You just have to read what they wrote and said about it.

 

[exchemist]

No I haven't forgotten

But still doesn't seem like something that would bring down a steel building of that size to me. But again, im not qualified to answer that so its just my unqualified opinion

Again, not especially in support of a conspiracy or anything, Ill leave that to people that know more about these things and care to spend time on it

See post 17 for details.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It was the fire, actually. The steel lost its strength, and got twisted by non-uniform thermal expansion. It's all here:
World Trade Center: Reasons Behind the Failure of Building After 9/11 Attack - The Constructor

The key passage is this: "Thus, structural steel failed because of two variables. The first one is due to the loss of strength of steel because of the temperature of the fire. The second one is the loss of structural stability because of the twisting of the steel from the non-uniformity in the fire temperatures."

Even that website gives credit to the planes themselves (actually, planes, explosion, amd fire more specifically)

Both WTC-1 and WTC-2 were designed to resist a two-hour fire for an open-web floor framework and three hours for the columns sections. However, the impact of the airplane was so huge that the fire protection system didn’t work correctly.

The strength of steel progressively reduced as the flames seethed, and collapse became inevitable. WTC-2 collapsed initially, 56 minutes after the impact of the airplane while WTC-1 collapsed after 102 minutes.

Undoubtedly, the impact of aircraft resulted in the failure of several columns on the exterior of the twin buildings.

It wasn't just one or the other but a combination of things, and definitely wrong to try to promote the idea it was just fire that brought them down. Each on its own may not have.