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Do you believe in a global flood?
- Thread starter Atruthseeker
- Start date
gnostic
The Lost One
Where did you get the figure, 3850 BC?muffled said:
I think you really should revise your calculation.
muffled said:
You are correct that there are no dynasties in Pre-dynastic Egypt in 3850 BC, but your 3850 put the entire timeline of the bible out of alignment by 2000 years.
You do realise that according to the calculation of Noah's Flood to Abraham departure from Haran is ONLY 366 YEARS. I have to emphasis this to you, because you have to understand your serious miscalculation of your "Biblical" timeline is, if you go with this 3850 number.
If the flood happened as you say in 3850 BC, then that would Abraham leaving Haran in around 3484 BC and the death of Jacob would happen in 3251 BC (which would only make it 599 years between flood and Jacob's death).
Do you know how many thing wrong with that (referring to your 3850 BC Flood)? Babylon, Agade, and other cities mentioned in Genesis would not exist historically. Joseph's wife came from the Egyptian city of Heliopolis, called On, in Genesis wouldn't exist in 3251 BC. There were no city-states in Canaan between 3484 and 3251 BC.
Other problems existed with a calculation of 3850 BC too. It would push back the following dates:
- The city of Ramesses wasn't built until either 19th or 20th dynasty in Egypt, which was around 14th-12th century BC. Your calculation would make 31st-29th century BC instead.
- Fall of Jerusalem (the Babylonian Captivity) would happened in 2333 BC instead of 587 BC. Nebuchadnezzar II is a well-known Neo-Babylonian king of the 6th century BC, but around 2333 BC no such king existed.
- Cyrus the Great allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem in 538 BC, but your calculation would move in back to 2284 BC, when neither Cyrus the Great nor the Persians didn't exist.
- Jesus was born in 6 BC, during Roman rule of most of the Mediterranean, but with 3850 BC, Jesus will be born instead in 1752 BC, when the Romans and the Judaea didn't exist. Even more important, Herod the Great, Augustus Caesar and Quirinius, therefore no census taken in Judaea, because they didn't exist in 1752 BC.
- Not to mention that David and Solomon couldn't have flourished in 27th and 26th century BC, because there weren't any kingdom Israel. David and flourished in 11th and 10th century BC
Your calculation of 3850 BC for the Flood would make all the historical dates to early. So seriously, you need to revise when the Flood happen, otherwise your entire bible is completely false, historically.
The flood couldn't have happened in Pre-dynastic Egypt time, not if you believe in the Bible.
How many years do you think pass between the Flood and Abraham leaving Haran? Or between the Flood and Jacob's death?
If you are saying it is more than 366 years and 599 years, respectively, then you seriously need to go back and re-take junior high school maths, muffled.
Last edited:
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
And God's such a tricky dude,
He erased all evidence of the occurrence.
MSizer
MSizer
Including the water itself.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
And plant evidence to the contrary?
And while He was at it, he encoded chimps and humans with the same retroviral genetic evidence for common descent.
Then He made all the evidence for a 4.5 million year old earth, on a planet less than 10,000 yrs old.
And so on, and so on.....
What a prankster.:sarcastic
http://www.filesavr.com/local-flood
Taken from: answersingenesis.org
Was There Really a Noahs Ark & Flood?
by Ken Ham & Tim Lovett
October 11, 2007
Taken from: answersingenesis.org
Was There Really a Noahs Ark & Flood?
by Ken Ham & Tim Lovett
October 11, 2007
Last edited:
Hi guys. :bow:
Well I state that I believe the Bible is the Word of God the Creator of heaven and earth. So the flood must also be true huh??
It explains the Grand Canyon anyway, how could one river make such a big Canyon? Millions of years ha ha ha, probably around 5 thousand thanks to the Flood.
All will be revealed folks when the Creator returns in the sky with all His holy angels with Him........Prepare to meet thy God.....then go pale and claim evolution and no flood and the Bible is a myth.........oh the poor children who claim to be so clever and know so much.....our heavenly Father smiles knowingly at us........
Anyway it is great to have a Forum for everyone to express their opinions, including mine.
Shalom. May God bless all here. brother2.
Well I state that I believe the Bible is the Word of God the Creator of heaven and earth. So the flood must also be true huh??
It explains the Grand Canyon anyway, how could one river make such a big Canyon? Millions of years ha ha ha, probably around 5 thousand thanks to the Flood.
All will be revealed folks when the Creator returns in the sky with all His holy angels with Him........Prepare to meet thy God.....then go pale and claim evolution and no flood and the Bible is a myth.........oh the poor children who claim to be so clever and know so much.....our heavenly Father smiles knowingly at us........
Anyway it is great to have a Forum for everyone to express their opinions, including mine.
Shalom. May God bless all here. brother2.
Satans_Serrated_Edge
Deicidal
I like how the flood-proponents keep pushing the date back to account for the fact the egyptians weren't wiped out by it. Not to be a pest or anything, but chinese culture can be shown to have existed uninterrupted since at least 6000bc. Time to push the date back even further I guess
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Yeah, crazy geologists. What do they know about erosion, sedimentation, and strata....
301ouncer
Well-Known Member
Hi, I was asked this same question a few weeks back in another forum. Here was my detailed response:
NOAH (PBUH) AND THE FLOOD
The Biblical description of the flood in Genesis chapter 6, 7 and 8 indicates that the deluge was universal and it destroyed every living thing on earth, except those present with Noah (pbuh) in the ark. The description suggests that the event took place 1656 years after the creation of Adam (pbuh) or 292 years before the birth of Abraham, at a time when Noah (pbuh) was 600 years old. Thus the flood may have occurred in the 21st or 22nd Century B.C.
This story of the flood, as given in the Bible, contradicts scientific evidence from archaelogical sources which indicate that the eleventh dynasty in Egypt and the third dynasty in Babylonia were in existence without any break in civilisation and in a manner totally unaffected by any major calamity which may have occurred in the 21st century B.C. This contradicts the Biblical story that the whole world had been immersed in the flood water. In contrast to this, the Qur’anic presentation of the story of Noah and the flood does not conflict with scientific evidence or archaeological data; firstly, the Qur’an does not indicate any specific date or year of the occurance of that event, and secondly, according to the Qur’an the flood was not a universal phenomenon which destroyed complete life on earth. In fact the Qur’an specifically mentions that the flood was a localised event only involving the people of Noah.
This is for you anodos just incase you assumed it earlier: It is illogical to assume that Prophet Muhammad () had borrowed the story of the flood from the Bible and corrected the mistakes before mentioning it in the Qur’an.
NOAH (PBUH) AND THE FLOOD
The Biblical description of the flood in Genesis chapter 6, 7 and 8 indicates that the deluge was universal and it destroyed every living thing on earth, except those present with Noah (pbuh) in the ark. The description suggests that the event took place 1656 years after the creation of Adam (pbuh) or 292 years before the birth of Abraham, at a time when Noah (pbuh) was 600 years old. Thus the flood may have occurred in the 21st or 22nd Century B.C.
This story of the flood, as given in the Bible, contradicts scientific evidence from archaelogical sources which indicate that the eleventh dynasty in Egypt and the third dynasty in Babylonia were in existence without any break in civilisation and in a manner totally unaffected by any major calamity which may have occurred in the 21st century B.C. This contradicts the Biblical story that the whole world had been immersed in the flood water. In contrast to this, the Qur’anic presentation of the story of Noah and the flood does not conflict with scientific evidence or archaeological data; firstly, the Qur’an does not indicate any specific date or year of the occurance of that event, and secondly, according to the Qur’an the flood was not a universal phenomenon which destroyed complete life on earth. In fact the Qur’an specifically mentions that the flood was a localised event only involving the people of Noah.
This is for you anodos just incase you assumed it earlier: It is illogical to assume that Prophet Muhammad () had borrowed the story of the flood from the Bible and corrected the mistakes before mentioning it in the Qur’an.
301ouncer
Well-Known Member
This all I could find in my bookmarks library for now, ted:
By. Dr. Ibrahim Khalil
Noah and His Son in the Quran:
Yes, Noah had a big problem with His son.
Noah was one of the great Messengers.
His son was unbeliever.
This is the problem that ended up with dramatic death of His son.
Herein, the story of Noah and His son according to the Quran:
Noah was sent to his nation.
Noah told them to worship Allah.
Most of the people refused to accept Noah on the assumption that Noah is just a human being like them and his followers are inferior to them.
They denied Noah and thought that He is a liar.
Noah lived about 1000 years.
He had disputed the unbelievers for many hundreds of years.
Allah said to Noah that none of his nation will believe except whosoever has already believed.
Allah commanded Noah to build the ark and do not speak to Allah concerning the evil doers; they all shall be drowned.
Allah commanded Noah to take on board (the ark) a pair from every species and his family (except he of whom the word has already been spoken) and those who believe.
His son refused to get in the ark, Noah cried out to his son, who was standing apart, 'embark with us, my son, and do not be with the unbelievers! '
His son said: 'I shall seek refuge on a mountain, which will protect me from the water.
The waves came between them, and his son was drowned.
Noah called out to Allah, saying: 'o lord, my son was of my family, and your promise is surely the truth.
Allah said: 'Noah, he is not of your family, he is not a good deed. Do not ask me about things of which you have no knowledge.
Noah said immediately Noah apologized to Allah asking Him to forgive him and have mercy on him,
This is the story of Noah and his son in the Quran.
Surah 11:25-49
25 we sent Noah to his nation. (Noah said
'I am a Warner for you, and a bearer of glad tidings.
26 worship none except Allah. I fear for you the punishment of a painful day. '
27 the unbelieving council of his nation said: 'we do not see you other than a human like ourselves. we see your followers are none but the lowliest amongst us, and their opinion is not to be considered. we do not see you superior to us, rather, we consider you liars. '
28 he said: 'what do you think my nation? If I have a clear proof from my lord and he has given me mercy from him, though it is hidden from you, can we compel you to accept it when you hate it?
29 my nation, for this I do not ask you for your wealth for my wage is only with Allah. Nor will I drive away the believers, for they will surely meet their lord. But, I can see that you are ignorant.
30 and, o my people! Who will help me against Allah if I drive them away? Will you not then mind?
31 I do not say to you that I possess the treasuries of Allah, and I do not know the unseen. I do not say I am an angel, nor do I say to those whom you despise; Allah will not give them any good. Allah knows best what is in their hearts. Indeed, if this were so then I would be amongst the harm and evil doers.
32 they said: 'o Noah, you have disputed, and disputed too much, with us. bring (down) upon us that which you promised us, if what you say is true! '
33 he replied: 'Allah will bring it (down) upon you if he will; you will never frustrate him.
34 nor will my sincere counsel benefit you if I sincerely desire to counsel you if Allah desires to lead you astray. He is your lord, and to him you shall return. '
35 or do they say: 'he has fabricated it (himself)? ' say: 'if i had fabricated it, then the sin rests upon me. i reject the sins you do. '
36 and it was revealed to Noah: 'none of your nation will believe except whosoever has already believed. Do not distress yourself with what they may do.
37 build the ark with our seeing (and protection), and as we reveal. Do not speak to me concerning the evildoers; they shall be drowned. '
38 whenever an assembly of his nation passed by him as he was building the ark, they mocked him. Whereupon he said: 'if you mock us, we shall indeed mock you, just as you mock.
39 you shall know to whom a degrading punishment will come, and upon whom an everlasting punishment will fall. '
40 and when our command came and the oven gushed (forth with water), we said (to Noah): 'take on board (the ark) a pair from every species and your family, except he of whom the word has already been spoken, and those who believe. And none except a few believed with him.
41 he (Noah) said: 'embark. In the name of Allah will be its course and berthing. Indeed, my lord is forgiving, the most merciful. '
42 and so it (the ark) ran with them amidst the mountainous waves, and Noah cried out to his son, who was standing apart, 'embark with us, my son, and do not be with the unbelievers! '
43 but he replied: 'I shall seek refuge on a mountain, which will protect me from the water. 'He (Noah) said: 'today, there is no defender from the command of Allah, except those to whom he has mercy. 'And the waves came between them, and he was drowned.
44 and it was said: 'earth, swallow up your waters. Heaven, cease! 'The water subsided and the matter was accomplished. And the ark came to rest upon (the mountain of) "aljudi", and it was said: 'be gone, evildoing nation! '
45 Noah called out to his lord, saying: 'o lord, my son was of my family, and your promise is surely the truth. You are the most just of judges. '
46 he said: 'Noah, he is not of your family, he is not a good deed. Do not ask me about things of which you have no knowledge. I reproach you lest you become among the ignorant. '
47 he said: 'my lord, i seek refuge with you from asking you of that which I have no knowledge. if you do not forgive me and have mercy on me, I shall be among the losers. '
48 it was said: 'o Noah, descend with peace from us and blessings on you and on the nations of those with you; and nations we shall give them enjoyment, and then from us they shall be visited with a painful punishment. '
49 that is from the news of the unseen which we reveal to you; neither you nor your nation knew this before now. have patience; the outcome is for the cautious.
There are many big differences between the story of Noah and his son in the Bible versus the Quran.
The Bible does not say that Noah disputed his nation for many hundreds of years.
It seems likely that Noah would not live silent for many hundreds of years and never warned them.
The Bible does not say that Noah told his nation to worship the Great Almighty Lord.
The Bible never says that some of the believers were not belonged to Noah family. The Bible claims that the believers were Noah and his family. The Quran says that the believers were Noah and his family and some others who are not belonged to Noah's family.
The Bible says that the problem between Noah and his son was because he gets drunk, and lies around naked in his tent. His son, Ham saw him in this condition. This was the problem of Noah with his son as the Bible claims.
This Biblical story put the "Perfect, just and righteous" Noah down and dishonors him as a man who gets drunk and did foolish acts.
The problem of Noah with his son according to the Quran was because his son was unbeliever and he died. The merciful Noah felt sorry for his son but Allah told him not to feel sorry about him because he is an evil doer.
It is very interesting that the Quran never mentions the names of Noah's sons.
On the other hand, the Bible named them and categorized them to good and bad and to black and white and cursed one of them because of the "drunken" Noah as the Bible claims. Unfortunately, many millions of innocent people had been killed, slaved and abused because of this Biblical claim. It is suspicious that this Biblical story puts the roots of racism, color discrimination and the slavery.
In conclusion, Moslems believe that Noah was one of the great Messengers. Moslems do not believe that Noah was "drunk" and cursed his grandson. Moslems believe that Noah's son was unbeliever and he died.
This article aimed to compare the cause of the problem of Noah and his son in the Bible versus the Quran.
However, the complete story of Noah needs another article.
Back to the main topic of my series of articles (1- 56); this is my question to you smart readers: "Is the Quran quoted from the Bible "?
By. Dr. Ibrahim Khalil
Noah and His Son in the Quran:
Yes, Noah had a big problem with His son.
Noah was one of the great Messengers.
His son was unbeliever.
This is the problem that ended up with dramatic death of His son.
Herein, the story of Noah and His son according to the Quran:
Noah was sent to his nation.
Noah told them to worship Allah.
Most of the people refused to accept Noah on the assumption that Noah is just a human being like them and his followers are inferior to them.
They denied Noah and thought that He is a liar.
Noah lived about 1000 years.
He had disputed the unbelievers for many hundreds of years.
Allah said to Noah that none of his nation will believe except whosoever has already believed.
Allah commanded Noah to build the ark and do not speak to Allah concerning the evil doers; they all shall be drowned.
Allah commanded Noah to take on board (the ark) a pair from every species and his family (except he of whom the word has already been spoken) and those who believe.
His son refused to get in the ark, Noah cried out to his son, who was standing apart, 'embark with us, my son, and do not be with the unbelievers! '
His son said: 'I shall seek refuge on a mountain, which will protect me from the water.
The waves came between them, and his son was drowned.
Noah called out to Allah, saying: 'o lord, my son was of my family, and your promise is surely the truth.
Allah said: 'Noah, he is not of your family, he is not a good deed. Do not ask me about things of which you have no knowledge.
Noah said immediately Noah apologized to Allah asking Him to forgive him and have mercy on him,
This is the story of Noah and his son in the Quran.
Surah 11:25-49
25 we sent Noah to his nation. (Noah said
26 worship none except Allah. I fear for you the punishment of a painful day. '
27 the unbelieving council of his nation said: 'we do not see you other than a human like ourselves. we see your followers are none but the lowliest amongst us, and their opinion is not to be considered. we do not see you superior to us, rather, we consider you liars. '
28 he said: 'what do you think my nation? If I have a clear proof from my lord and he has given me mercy from him, though it is hidden from you, can we compel you to accept it when you hate it?
29 my nation, for this I do not ask you for your wealth for my wage is only with Allah. Nor will I drive away the believers, for they will surely meet their lord. But, I can see that you are ignorant.
30 and, o my people! Who will help me against Allah if I drive them away? Will you not then mind?
31 I do not say to you that I possess the treasuries of Allah, and I do not know the unseen. I do not say I am an angel, nor do I say to those whom you despise; Allah will not give them any good. Allah knows best what is in their hearts. Indeed, if this were so then I would be amongst the harm and evil doers.
32 they said: 'o Noah, you have disputed, and disputed too much, with us. bring (down) upon us that which you promised us, if what you say is true! '
33 he replied: 'Allah will bring it (down) upon you if he will; you will never frustrate him.
34 nor will my sincere counsel benefit you if I sincerely desire to counsel you if Allah desires to lead you astray. He is your lord, and to him you shall return. '
35 or do they say: 'he has fabricated it (himself)? ' say: 'if i had fabricated it, then the sin rests upon me. i reject the sins you do. '
36 and it was revealed to Noah: 'none of your nation will believe except whosoever has already believed. Do not distress yourself with what they may do.
37 build the ark with our seeing (and protection), and as we reveal. Do not speak to me concerning the evildoers; they shall be drowned. '
38 whenever an assembly of his nation passed by him as he was building the ark, they mocked him. Whereupon he said: 'if you mock us, we shall indeed mock you, just as you mock.
39 you shall know to whom a degrading punishment will come, and upon whom an everlasting punishment will fall. '
40 and when our command came and the oven gushed (forth with water), we said (to Noah): 'take on board (the ark) a pair from every species and your family, except he of whom the word has already been spoken, and those who believe. And none except a few believed with him.
41 he (Noah) said: 'embark. In the name of Allah will be its course and berthing. Indeed, my lord is forgiving, the most merciful. '
42 and so it (the ark) ran with them amidst the mountainous waves, and Noah cried out to his son, who was standing apart, 'embark with us, my son, and do not be with the unbelievers! '
43 but he replied: 'I shall seek refuge on a mountain, which will protect me from the water. 'He (Noah) said: 'today, there is no defender from the command of Allah, except those to whom he has mercy. 'And the waves came between them, and he was drowned.
44 and it was said: 'earth, swallow up your waters. Heaven, cease! 'The water subsided and the matter was accomplished. And the ark came to rest upon (the mountain of) "aljudi", and it was said: 'be gone, evildoing nation! '
45 Noah called out to his lord, saying: 'o lord, my son was of my family, and your promise is surely the truth. You are the most just of judges. '
46 he said: 'Noah, he is not of your family, he is not a good deed. Do not ask me about things of which you have no knowledge. I reproach you lest you become among the ignorant. '
47 he said: 'my lord, i seek refuge with you from asking you of that which I have no knowledge. if you do not forgive me and have mercy on me, I shall be among the losers. '
48 it was said: 'o Noah, descend with peace from us and blessings on you and on the nations of those with you; and nations we shall give them enjoyment, and then from us they shall be visited with a painful punishment. '
49 that is from the news of the unseen which we reveal to you; neither you nor your nation knew this before now. have patience; the outcome is for the cautious.
There are many big differences between the story of Noah and his son in the Bible versus the Quran.
The Bible does not say that Noah disputed his nation for many hundreds of years.
It seems likely that Noah would not live silent for many hundreds of years and never warned them.
The Bible does not say that Noah told his nation to worship the Great Almighty Lord.
The Bible never says that some of the believers were not belonged to Noah family. The Bible claims that the believers were Noah and his family. The Quran says that the believers were Noah and his family and some others who are not belonged to Noah's family.
The Bible says that the problem between Noah and his son was because he gets drunk, and lies around naked in his tent. His son, Ham saw him in this condition. This was the problem of Noah with his son as the Bible claims.
This Biblical story put the "Perfect, just and righteous" Noah down and dishonors him as a man who gets drunk and did foolish acts.
The problem of Noah with his son according to the Quran was because his son was unbeliever and he died. The merciful Noah felt sorry for his son but Allah told him not to feel sorry about him because he is an evil doer.
It is very interesting that the Quran never mentions the names of Noah's sons.
On the other hand, the Bible named them and categorized them to good and bad and to black and white and cursed one of them because of the "drunken" Noah as the Bible claims. Unfortunately, many millions of innocent people had been killed, slaved and abused because of this Biblical claim. It is suspicious that this Biblical story puts the roots of racism, color discrimination and the slavery.
In conclusion, Moslems believe that Noah was one of the great Messengers. Moslems do not believe that Noah was "drunk" and cursed his grandson. Moslems believe that Noah's son was unbeliever and he died.
This article aimed to compare the cause of the problem of Noah and his son in the Bible versus the Quran.
However, the complete story of Noah needs another article.
Back to the main topic of my series of articles (1- 56); this is my question to you smart readers: "Is the Quran quoted from the Bible "?
gnostic
The Lost One
I've just watched the documentary on The Truth Behind: Noah's Ark, last night, right after Criminal Minds. And I must say it was waste of my hour.
The creationist (I don't know his name) out at Mount Ararat, seeking the remain of the Ark, made many claims, which he can't prove. He is not geologist, but he think he seemed to know more about petrified wood, than any geologist.
I preferred to watch Criminal Minds, any day, then to watch some creationist make a complete *** of himself on the National Geographic so-called "documentary". Why did they even bother to waste time and film on it?
The creationist (I don't know his name) out at Mount Ararat, seeking the remain of the Ark, made many claims, which he can't prove. He is not geologist, but he think he seemed to know more about petrified wood, than any geologist.
I preferred to watch Criminal Minds, any day, then to watch some creationist make a complete *** of himself on the National Geographic so-called "documentary". Why did they even bother to waste time and film on it?
archangel88
Member
I believe that the 5,000 year old flood was something that was world wide. There was so much corruption in those days in just about every part of the world and for about a thousand years (according to the book of enoch) the giant hybrid offspring of the Grigori (watcher angels led by azazel) created so much chaos that God sent a flood because he wanted to save us from the hybrids.
gnostic
The Lost One
archangel88 said:
The bible, if you calculate the number of years, and depending on the which sources (Masoretic Texts, Septinguint, Sarmatian Torah), would indicate that the flood happen around 4100 or 4350 year ago (hence 2100 BC or 2350 BC respectively), not 5000 years ago. If you put it at 5000 years ago, then the timeline for Abraham, the Fall of Jerusalem and Return, would be completely out of alignment 600 to 900 years. And there were no evidences of such flood happening in the biblical time-line.
As to your 5000 years ago (3000 BC), there are also no physical evidences to support your theory that the flood was world wide. And for the flood to happen at this time, the Bronze Age civilisations would not have emerge at this time.
archangel88 said:
There are also no physical (archaeological) evidences of giants, at any period of times. There may be tall individuals, but no where near what the Book of Enoch or other sources had described.
James Humphreys
Member
I think that the dating of history in the Bible is more or less accurate from the time of Abraham on, but before Abraham the numbers of years and generations listed are likely symbolic.
My view is that there was a flood, but not a flood that literally covered everything. I was very much interested by a story that I read in the NYT a couple of years ago about evidence for a meteor that struck in the Indian Ocean near Madagascar about 4,800 years ago. If I remember right there would have been 600 foot waves throughout the Indian Ocean basin (which I think would have affected the Persian Gulf as well). Further, it would have caused coastal flooding throughout the world. Such an event could have temporarily covered hills and low mountains in some areas (a la Deep Impact), but probably would not leave much trace in terms of sediments, except in some low lying areas.
gnostic
The Lost One
James Humphreys said:
The (biblical) flood would have occurred (according to various calculation of the bible) during the Old Kingdom of Egyptian (from 4th dynasty to 6th dynasty), or between the Akkadian dynasty and the 3rd dynasty of Ur in Mesopotamia.
But if we are to use your meteor-Indian Ocean theory, as a point of historical reference, then that would put the dating in the 3rd millennium BCE,
- around the time of the end of 1st dynasty or the beginning of the 2nd dynasty in Egypt, which is Early Dynastic Period;
- or, about the time of early dynastic periods in Sumer, when Uruk (and other Sumerian cities) was flourishing.
Although, the ancient Sumerians had a flood legend of their own, which are composed centuries early (in both oral tradition and writing) than the Genesis, attributed to Moses, living in 3rd quarter of 2nd millennium BCE (1400-1200 BC, depending on the calculations of the bible's dates). Gilgamesh the king of Uruk, who historically lived around 2700-2600 BC, was in later legend, supposedly met Ziusudra (later known as Utnapishtim in Babylonian legend), the deluge hero.
The point I am getting is that neither Egyptian or Mesopotamian civilisation had disrupting flood around 2800 BCE, when they were actually flourishing, despite Sumer having flood myths. In Sumer, many of the important cities are not too far from the coast. But according to the Genesis, the flood water high enough to put the Ark on the slope of Mount Ararat. If the bible is true, then Sumer would indeed be underwater, and the Sumerian civilisation would be completely destroyed. There are far more archaeological evidences of disruption due to enemies attacking cities than the devastation of the biblical so-called "global" flood.
Putting the occurrences to match the time of your meteor in the Indian Ocean, would have push the dates for Abraham, Moses, David, the Fall of Jerusalem and Jesus back 500 to 800 years, it further back in time. You have to remember that only (and EXACTLY):
- 291 years had passed from the time of the Flood to the birth of Abraham,
- or 372 years from the time of the Flood to Abraham leaving Haran, at age 75.
There are some idiot Creationists think that Noah's Flood occurred at the time of the Black Sea Deluge, but again, that would disrupt the whole Biblical timeline, because the Black Sea Deluge have occurred 5700 BCE, which mean 7700 YEARS AGO.
And even worse, idiots, like the YECs (Young Earth Creationists) thinking the flood happened at the end of Ice Ages. But the Ice Ages ended in northern Mesopotamia, over 10,000 YEARS AGO.
Sorry, James, but your meteor-Indian Ocean, like other debunked creationist's theories that I have mentioned, would seriously disrupt the biblical time line, at least 500 years, if not more.
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jtartar
Well-Known Member
Atruthseeker,
It is one thing to say you are a Christian, it is another to really BE a Christian. The fact is: You cannot really be a Christian and deny the fact of a world wide flood. The Bible is God's word to every living person, and it is the only thing on this earth that a person can completely believe in. Even many religious leaders today deny the flood account of the Bible, which means that they are false teachers that the Bible warns against, 2Pet 2:1-3, Acts 20:29,30, Matt 7:15,16,20.
Peter wrote about the flood, 2Pet 2:5, 3:5,6, 20.
When Jesus was on earth he mentioned the flood,Matt 24:37-39. Remember, all the Hebrew Scriptures were written when Jesus was here, and Jesus said: Your Word is Truth, John 17:17. Genesis is very clear that the flood was earth wide. Gen 7:19,20 tells us that the water came to be 15 cubits above the tallest mountains, which was about 22 feet. It would be an impossibility for water to reach that high and continue to be a local flood. In those days there were no mountains aa high as Mount Everest. The Bible even gives an explanation for this, Ps 104:6-9. The huge amount of water caused the mountains to ascend, the valleys to descend. Tectonics caused the rest of the height.
Science has found evidence of a global flood.
Interestingly, Science has no explanation for the Rainbow. God said that He put the Rainbow in the heavens as a covenant between Him and man that He will never again flood the entire earth with water, Gen 9:12-17. We have had many local floods.
Peacewise
Active Member
nope, don't believe in a global flood, why. Not real sure why, just don't.
I do think that the 'world' within the bible was a region in the middle east and north africa rather than the entire planet, it's just a context thing for me, since in my experience of history the 'world' has been described in terms of what is known.
Here be dragons, here be the world.
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