Do you believe in spontaneous organic life from non living elements?

[Dante Writer]

Do you believe in spontaneous organic life from non living elements?

If you walk back the Evolutionary theories to their beginning at some point you have to deal with this question.

Even if that first life in the form of bacteria came from some other planet hitched to an an asteroid or meteor you still have to get to the point of answering the question of how did that organism form.

If you do believe in spontaneous life then please tell us how that happened and evidence for that theory.

If not then please tell us what other mechanism could have produced that first life or theory for how it happened.

This is my discussion so any theory including religious and philisophical will be allowed.

 

[McBell]

God did it.

No need for any further discussion, right?

 

[Quetzal]

This again? Was one thread just not enough?

 

[Parsimony]

Even if that first life in the form of bacteria came from some other planet hitched to an an asteroid or meteor you still have to get to the point of answering the question of how did that organism form.

And with intelligent design, you have to get to the point of answering the question of how the intelligent designer formed. Since you have said before that the intelligent designer does not have to be a god, I am particularly interested that scenario. How would a non-god intelligent designer come into being?

 

[LuisDantas]

Do you believe in spontaneous organic life from non living elements?

Sure. It is actually difficult to doubt it at this point.

If you walk back the Evolutionary theories to their beginning at some point you have to deal with this question.

No. That is still abiogenesis, not evolution. That did not change from the last fifty times or so it was pointed out to you in about a half dozen different threads.

Even if that first life in the form of bacteria came from some other planet hitched to an an asteroid or meteor you still have to get to the point of answering the question of how did that organism form.

Far more likely than not, from chance association of free floating organic molecules.

Sure, that is a very rare occurrence. But we are talking about a whole planet here, and millions of years. Unlikely things tend to happen when given enough opportunity.

 

[allfoak]

This again? Was one thread just not enough?

this is not even the 2nd time.
He does it all day everyday since he got here.

This is the kind of things he continues to post. the arrogance is astounding.

BUT that will not stop me and I will bring you into the light if I have to drag you kicking and screaming from your caves.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Do you believe in spontaneous organic life from non living elements?

If you walk back the Evolutionary theories to their beginning at some point you have to deal with this question.

Even if that first life in the form of bacteria came from some other planet hitched to an an asteroid or meteor you still have to get to the point of answering the question of how did that organism form.

If you do believe in spontaneous life then please tell us how that happened and evidence for that theory.

If not then please tell us what other mechanism could have produced that first life or theory for how it happened.

This is my discussion so any theory including religious and philisophical will be allowed.

It's a good question, even atheists like Hoyle have been skeptical of such a spontaneous miracle, Dawkins acknowledges ID accounting for life as not only possible, but potentially verifiable scientifically were we to study it , (but of course this must be strictly verboten!!)

 

[Ouroboros]

Do you believe in spontaneous organic life from non living elements?

Kind'a. Not spontaneous since it suggests that a bunch of matter mixed together would do it.

We do know that organic matter exists in large quantities in space. For instance methanol, ethanol, amino acids, and more, even water exists in large amounts, so it's not like the building blocks aren't there. However, the conditions for them to come together and even start processing energy in any form, might be less common condition.

If you walk back the Evolutionary theories to their beginning at some point you have to deal with this question.

Sure.

Even if that first life in the form of bacteria came from some other planet hitched to an an asteroid or meteor you still have to get to the point of answering the question of how did that organism form.

Personally, yes. For theory of evolution, no.

If you do believe in spontaneous life then please tell us how that happened and evidence for that theory.

You're mixing things here. What I believe isn't the same as theory. And belief doesn't require evidence. Are you asking for a belief or knowledge here?

Put it this way, I don't know if abiogenesis happened or how. I can readily admit that. I don't know.

However, do I believe that it happened? Yes. I can just as easily admit that as well.

Do you want me to prove or show evidence for what I'm supporting my belief? Well... that's contrary to how I see belief to be. It's not something you know for a fact, but something you hold true even without a complete picture or all evidence at hand.

If not then please tell us what other mechanism could have produced that first life or theory for how it happened.

Considering that there's been many different experiments that has even produced nucleotides, it doesn't seem impossible. Exactly what processes that are require, I can't tell you. Or what processes and conditions that were in reality on the planet billions of years ago? Can't tell you that either.

If there are scientific facts you're after, then don't ask for belief.

This is my discussion so any theory including religious and philisophical will be allowed.

Let's first establish, are you looking for people's beliefs or what the facts are or what the scientific consensus says? Right now, I'm not sure which one you're asking for.

 

[Dante Writer]

And with intelligent design, you have to get to the point of answering the question of how the intelligent designer formed. Since you have said before that the intelligent designer does not have to be a god, I am particularly interested that scenario. How would a non-god intelligent designer come into being?

I did answer when you asked before but here it is again:

I believe in intelligent design and science and one science law seems to answer this question:

Energy can not be created or destroyed and all energy will eventually return to it's source.

When you break down life and all matter in the universe it is energy pure and simple.

So my answer is life was never created and is simply a reforming of that energy that has always and will always exist.

Now if you want to say that takes a God or is a just a law of Nature makes no difference to me!

 

[Dante Writer]

Sure. It is actually difficult to doubt it at this point.




No. That is still abiogenesis, not evolution. That did not change from the last fifty times or so it was pointed out to you in about a half dozen different threads.




Far more likely than not, from chance association of free floating organic molecules.

Sure, that is a very rare occurrence. But we are talking about a whole planet here, and millions of years. Unlikely things tend to happen when given enough opportunity.

"Sure. It is actually difficult to doubt it at this point."

So it is easier to believe life came from non living elements than to believe there is some other process you have not yet conceived of because in the big scheme of things human intellect is just in it's infancy of development and not capable of understanding that process.

"No. That is still abiogenesis, not evolution. That did not change from the last fifty times or so it was pointed out to you in about a half dozen different threads."

Evolution requires a living organism to work the last time I looked?

"Far more likely than not, from chance association of free floating organic molecules."

So you are basing that statement on what?

 

[Sapiens]

Do you believe in spontaneous organic life from non living elements?

If you walk back the Evolutionary theories to their beginning at some point you have to deal with this question.

Even if that first life in the form of bacteria came from some other planet hitched to an an asteroid or meteor you still have to get to the point of answering the question of how did that organism form.

If you do believe in spontaneous life then please tell us how that happened and evidence for that theory.

If not then please tell us what other mechanism could have produced that first life or theory for how it happened.

This is my discussion so any theory including religious and philisophical will be allowed.

If you walk back the Evolutionary Intelligent Design theories to their beginning at some point you have to deal with this question.

Even if that first life in the form of bacteria came from some other planet hitched to an an asteroid or meteor laboratory you still have to get to the point of answering the question of how did that organism form come into being.

If you do believe in spontaneous life creation of matter, energy, laboratories or lab workers, then please tell us how that happened and evidence for that theory.

If not then please tell us what other mechanism could have produced that first life matter, energy, lfe, laboratory or lab worker, or theory for how it happened.

Recursivity gets you in the end and makes your speculations little more than vaguely interesting if I'm very bored.

 

[Parsimony]

I did answer when you asked before but here it is again:

I believe in intelligent design and science and one science law seems to answer this question:

Energy can not be created or destroyed and all energy will eventually return to it's source.

When you break down life and all matter in the universe it is energy pure and simple.

So my answer is life was never created and is simply a reforming of that energy that has always and will always exist.

Now if you want to say that takes a God or is a just a law of Nature makes no difference to me!

So how did that energy become intelligent enough to design the life on our planet?

 

[Dante Writer]

Kind'a. Not spontaneous since it suggests that a bunch of matter mixed together would do it.

We do know that organic matter exists in large quantities in space. For instance methanol, ethanol, amino acids, and more, even water exists in large amounts, so it's not like the building blocks aren't there. However, the conditions for them to come together and even start processing energy in any form, might be less common condition.


Sure.


Personally, yes. For theory of evolution, no.


You're mixing things here. What I believe isn't the same as theory. And belief doesn't require evidence. Are you asking for a belief or knowledge here?

Put it this way, I don't know if abiogenesis happened or how. I can readily admit that. I don't know.

However, do I believe that it happened? Yes. I can just as easily admit that as well.

Do you want me to prove or show evidence for what I'm supporting my belief? Well... that's contrary to how I see belief to be. It's not something you know for a fact, but something you hold true even without a complete picture or all evidence at hand.


Considering that there's been many different experiments that has even produced nucleotides, it doesn't seem impossible. Exactly what processes that are require, I can't tell you. Or what processes and conditions that were in reality on the planet billions of years ago? Can't tell you that either.

If there are scientific facts you're after, then don't ask for belief.


Let's first establish, are you looking for people's beliefs or what the facts are or what the scientific consensus says? Right now, I'm not sure which one you're asking for.

I use the general definition of theory:

the·o·ry

1. a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

 

[Dante Writer]

If you walk back the Evolutionary Intelligent Design theories to their beginning at some point you have to deal with this question.

Even if that first life in the form of bacteria came from some other planet hitched to an an asteroid or meteor laboratory you still have to get to the point of answering the question of how did that organism form come into being.

If you do believe in spontaneous life creation of matter, energy, laboratories or lab workers, then please tell us how that happened and evidence for that theory.

If not then please tell us what other mechanism could have produced that first life matter, energy, lfe, laboratory or lab worker, or theory for how it happened.

Recursivity gets you in the end and makes your speculations little more than vaguely interesting if I'm very bored.

You and your buddies intentionally trashed a good discussion of mine so you will not get the respect of a reply other than this.

You want respect for your theory and posts- show respect to others!

 

[Revoltingest]

It's a good question, even atheists like Hoyle have been skeptical of such a spontaneous miracle.....

Notice that "Hoyle" rhymes with "boil" (a bulging infection).
So his skepticism lacks cromulence.
I like abiogenesis.
It's testable.
Some info....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

 

[Dante Writer]

So how did that energy become intelligent enough to design the life on our planet?

That would take a different definition of intelligence probably.

How do two ends of a magnet know to repel each other and is that intelligence or just a law of nature and the universe?

Keep in mind that we are all trying to figure this out with a brain that is just in it's infancy of development.

If you had told people a hundred years ago we would be able to visit other planets, clone animals and talk through waves of energy they would have laughed at you or maybe hung you as a witch.

So I believe the reason we do not see the answer is because our human intelligence is not developed to the point where we can accept that answer yet.

 

[Sapiens]

You and your buddies intentionally trashed a good discussion of mine so you will not get the respect of a reply other than this.

You want respect for your theory and posts- show respect to others!

Please, please Bre'r Fox ... don' tro me in dat briar patch.

 

[metis]

As far as the OP question is concerned, probably yes even though there's no way to verify it.

 

[Ouroboros]

I use the general definition of theory:

the·o·ry

1. a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

Why did you ask "do you believe" and continued with "believe" and then ask for evidence for the theory?

There's a huge difference in my mind between the things I believe and the things I know about theories. The theory of evolution is one thing.

There's no plain or unified theory of abiogenesis yet, so it can't be given to you.

What I believe about abiogenesis is what I believe, not the theory that's still not in place.

So again? You're asking for the evidence for the theory of abiogenesis? Is that it?

Also, spontaneous generation was a theory, and it was wrong, and it's not the same as abiogenesis. I hope you know this, right?

Actually, most of abiogenesis only consists of hypotheses currently, and no solidified theory has been developed.

 

[Dante Writer]

It's a good question, even atheists like Hoyle have been skeptical of such a spontaneous miracle, Dawkins acknowledges ID accounting for life as not only possible, but potentially verifiable scientifically were we to study it , (but of course this must be strictly verboten!!)

Any honest scientist will admit that spontaneous life can not happen. Even the attempt to try and replicate that requires intelligent design in a lab.