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Do you believe that Islam is a fair and just religion?

loverOfTruth

Well-Known Member
To Al-amiyr,
Do you believe that Islam is a fair and just religion?

The questions brought forth by RedJamaX below, I thought, were very reasonable questions that need clarification for a better understanding of Islam. So this thread would be my humble attempt to clarify the questions RedJamaX raised.

Why is it ok for men to have several wives, but wives cannot have several husbands?

That, in it's essence, is not fair.

Please note, I am atheist and not defending any particular religion as being "fair" in comparison to Islam.

To understand this highly misunderstood topic of polygamy in Islam, you not only have to understand the context and regulations regarding polygamy in Islam but also the system of marriage in Islam. It is certainly not an allowance of lustful sex for men as they please.

This is what the Qur'an says about it : "...Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one..." (Al-Qur'an 4:3)

First the context ...
"Karen Armstrong explains much the same in her book entitled Muhammad: A Western Attempt to Understand Islam. She says:
We have to see the ruling about polygamy in context. In seventh-century Arabia, when a man could have as many wives as he chose, to prescribe only four was a limitation, not a license to new oppression (Karen Armstrong, Muhammad: A Western Attempt to Understand Islam, Victor Gollancz Ltd., 1991, p.191)." [1]

"Polygyny provides a solution to some of life's problems. When there is a shortage of men, for example after a devastating war, many women will be unable to find husbands. Most women in that situation, given the option, would rather be a co-wife than no wife. If one maintains a strict monogamy in such a situation, moral depravity is bound to result. " [1] Furthermore, "Polygyny also sought to solve the problem of the existence of large numbers of widows and orphans who were left to fend for them." [2]

Now that we know the context, please note that Qur'an only permits a man to have four wives but does not command it. And in fact "less than 2% of Muslim marriages are polygamous" (A Muslim Primer, p.180). We shall see why ...

First of all, marriage in Islam puts a huge responsibility on the men. From the financial point of view
1) A man has to give a mutually agreed upon gift(mahr) to his wife for the marriage (just to show a perspective on things - currently that is roughly around $10,000 - $20,000 for middle class muslims in USA)
2) A man is solely responsible for providing for his family even if the wife works (so everything the wife earns is hers alone and everything the man earns is theirs)

So in the case of polygyny, in order to be just(equal) as the Qur'anic verse above states, the man has to provide(house, car, money etc.) equally to all his wives." Moreover, "A man must divide his time equally among his wives. He may, for example, spend one night with each wife on a rotating schedule. If a man cannot maintain justice in the treatment of his wives, the Qur'an stipulates that he is to have no more than one wife." [1]

After knowing all this, I don't know how many men would willingly opt for polygyny except those who are really sincere and not in it for lustful physical relationship. So it is very clear how Islam has checks and balance in everything it stipulates. And everything the Creator stipulates is for a reason and for the good of humanity cause no one knows us better than Him. See what non-muslims say about this : Why are there virtually no polyandrous societies?

Finally, I would point out that it is really hypocritical of the western society where polygamy(mutually agreed upon relationship with full responsibility) is 'illegal' and cheating(breaking covenant, without any responsibility and often involves lustful desire) with your spouse is not.

References:
[1]http://www.islamcan.com/common-questions-about-islam/why-does-quran-allow-muslim-men-to-have-four-wives.shtml
[2]http://www.islamiska.org/e/chap3.htm

And yet quite another interesting take on this matter :
The paradox of polygamy II: Why most women benefit from polygamy and most men benefit from monogamy | Psychology Today


If faithful Islamic men are awarded beautiful maidens... What is awarded to a faithful Islamic woman in heaven?

It is not true that only Muslim men get beautiful companions in heaven.

Even though in a few Qur'anic verses, for example, 44:54, is commonly translated as "So; and We shall join them to fair women with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes", "the Arabic word "hoor," is used (*,*,*,*) Now, the Arabic word "hoor" does NOT specifically mean: "females/maidens." The Arabic word "hoor" is actually the plural of ahwar (applicable to man) and of haura (applicable to woman) and signifies a person having eyes characterized by hauar a special quality bestowed upon a good soul, male or female in paradise and it denotes the intense whiteness of the white part of the spiritual eye. Therefore, the Arabic word "hoor" refers to both male and female, and the correct translation in these verses are: ""virgins, beautiful ones, beautiful mates, beautiful souls," which refers to MALES as well as females." [3]

And that makes sense when you read the verses before it : "Lo! those who kept their duty will be in a place secured. Amid gardens and watersprings,Attired in silk and silk embroidery, facing one another. Even so (it will be). And We shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes." (Al-Qur'an 44:51-54) . The underlined lines above could equally apply to male or female.

Bottom line is nothing unfair would be done to anyone.

Here is what the Qur'an says about that :
"Whoever does righteousness,whether male or female, while he is a believer - We will surely cause him to live a good life, and We will surely give them their reward [in the Hereafter] according to the best of what they used to do." (Al-Qur'an 16:97)

"And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deedsthat they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally." (Al-Qur'an 2:25)
Note that it doesn't say spouses for men only.

Further, according to one of the sayings of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)
"Narrated Abu Huraira: the Prophet said, "Allah said, "I have prepared for My righteous slaves (such excellent things) as no eye has ever seen, nor an ear has ever heard nor a human heart can ever think of.' "(Sahih Bukhari, Book 93, Number 589)

"And the one who has brought the truth and [they who] believed in it - those are the righteous.They will have whatever they desire with their Lord. That is the reward of the doers of good" (Al-Qur'an 39:33-34)
This verse pretty much defines the limit of what any male and female can have in paradise, that is no limit whatsoever - they can have whatever they desire.

Finally, According to Islam, God is the most Just and will do no injustice to anyone. One of the attributes of God is Al-Adl (The Just). "The One who judges between His Servants in this life and the Hereafter with His Justice and Fairness. He will not oppress anyone to the extent of an atoms weight and none will be made to carry the encumbrance of another. No servant will be recompensed in a way that is greater than the magnitude of his sin, he will be given only what he deserves. Not a single persons right will be denied, He is Just in His regulation and decree." [Taken from godnames.org/godnames.php?f=godnames_36_50#50]

"Then, on that Day, not a soul will be wronged in the least, and ye shall but be repaid the meeds of your past Deeds. Verily the Companions of the Garden shall that Day have joy in all that they do;They and their associates will be in groves of (cool) shade, reclining on Thrones (of dignity);" (Al-Qur'an 36:54-56)

This further confirms that both Male and Female will be dealt with full justice and no one will have any complaints. I think that is Fair.

Now let me finish this with a statement a muslim women wrote while discussing gender equality issues in Islam... "On the other hand, only a woman can be a mother. And God has given special privilege to a mother. The Prophet (pbuh) taught us that heaven lies at the feet of mothers. But no matter what a man does he can never be a mother. So why is that not unfair?" [4]

The answer lies in - "But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah(God) Knows, while you know not." (Al-Qur'an 2:216)

[3]http://islamic-replies.ucoz.com/2/Only_Males_Or_Both.html
[4]http://www.suhaibwebb.com/ummah/women/a-woman%E2%80%99s-reflection-on-leading-prayer/
 
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InfidelRiot

Active Member
Spirituality is something to keep in mind, because anything bound by the written word of man is bound by a construct that defies reasonable thought.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
In Islam, is anyone punished for failing to believe there is no God but God and that Mohammed is His prophet?

For instance,

1) Is there a punishment for atheists in Islam?

2) Is there a punishment for changing one's religion in Islam?

3) Is the weight of testimony given by women unequal to that of a man's in Islam?

4) Is the distribution of inheritance unequal between men and women in Islam?

5) Are men and women forced to accept different gender roles in socieity in Islam?

Any "yes" answers are examples of unfairness and injustice in Islam. If all answers are "no," then fair enough.
 

loverOfTruth

Well-Known Member
Is slavery fair?

I assume you are referring to the fact that muslims call themselves Slave of God. With that in mind, I would say sure it is fair. I would absolutely be willing to be an obedient servant of God doing good and avoiding evil in this transient world in return for an Eternal bliss in paradise. You must have heard of comp-time except the reward there is not infinite, where as for us the reward is Eternal.

"One should not confuse the negative connotations of servitude that people have come to understand. We can have a wonderful relationship with the Almighty if we stand firm in our beliefs and do as He wants, which is all good things. Remember that we have the choice of doing good or bad, slaves do not." [Taken from : Slaves of God [6484] -Overview of Islam - Understanding Islam ]

So yes, it is fair to be the Servant/Slave of the Almighty God.
 

loverOfTruth

Well-Known Member
A religion is more than its scripture. Something to keep in mind.

That would be more relevant to those who don't have the confidence and evidence that their scripture is indeed from God. Also, a point to note is that we need to separate culture from religion when judging the religion.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
Seems like the answer to "Is Islam a fair and just religion" would have to be "It depends on who is interpreting it and how they do so."

Islam has as much potential to be a fair and just religion as any other religion or philosophical/social movement does. Whether in practice it actually is fair and just would appear to depend on how a given Muslim interprets the Quran, accepts/understands various hadiths, parses Sharia law, and chooses to adhere to any number of varying regional customs.

Or so I take it.
 
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Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Seems like the answer to "Is Islam a fair and just religion" would have to be "It depends on who is interpreting it and how they do so."

Islam has as much potential to be a fair and just religion as any other religion or philosophical/social movement does. Whether in practice it actual is fair and just would appear to depend on how a given Muslim interprets the Quran, accepts/understands various hadiths, parses Sharia law, and chooses to adhere to any number of varying regional customs.

Or so I take it.

My thoughts exactly.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Is Islam fair? To whom?
I'd say no.
Many individual Muslims appear to be pretty fair, but a huge number are definitely not fair....by my standards.
The unfairness which is rooted in both their culture & their religion, & that latter influence is undeniable.
 

loverOfTruth

Well-Known Member
Is Islam fair? To whom?
I'd say no.
Many individual Muslims appear to be pretty fair, but a huge number are definitely not fair....by my standards.
The unfairness which is rooted in both their culture & their religion, & that latter influence is undeniable.

Obviously, Fairness is subjective. But if the question of fairness comes due to lack of information or misinformation then that is not Fair ;-). That's why we are discussing the individual issues and clarifying the information (putting it out in the open) and everyone can make their own judgement from there on.
 

loverOfTruth

Well-Known Member
Seems like the answer to "Is Islam a fair and just religion" would have to be "It depends on who is interpreting it and how they do so."

Islam has as much potential to be a fair and just religion as any other religion or philosophical/social movement does. Whether in practice it actually is fair and just would appear to depend on how a given Muslim interprets the Quran, accepts/understands various hadiths, parses Sharia law, and chooses to adhere to any number of varying regional customs.

Or so I take it.


I would partially agree with you on that. Sometimes what you said regarding interpretation is correct. Yet sometimes regardless of interpretation differences, people misconstrue the answer to the 'fairness of Islam' question because there is an active campaign to undermine Islam and falsify/fabricate information about Islam without giving the full truth. Which is not the case so much for some other faiths because the Islamophobes are too busy with Islam seeing people accepting Islam in droves.
 
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loverOfTruth

Well-Known Member
Any "yes" answers are examples of unfairness and injustice in Islam. If all answers are "no," then fair enough.

First of all thanks for asking the questions. That is exactly why I started this thread. If a plain 'yes' and 'no' answer would define fairness, I would not have bothered to create this thread which should be quite apparent from the questions answered in the OP. Having said that let's clarify the answers.

1) Is there a punishment for atheists in Islam?

Yes, and it is absolutely fair. Let's see why.

A person who does not believe in the existence of God, denies or doubts the existence of another life after his death and rejects that He will meet God in the hereafter. So God will reward the good deeds of such a non-believer in this world with wealth, power, prosperity, health etc. but no share in the hereafter because they themselves reject the idea of hereafter. And they will suffer for their sins in the hereafter. And denying God is a big sin after so many signs have been given all over the universe. However, it is quite safe to assume that if the True message of God (The creator of the heavens and the earth and everything in and out of it) has really not reached a person, he/she will not be held accountable for it.

You can't have it both ways. Either you say I believe in hereafter and I want to follow God so I get rewards and avoid punishment in the hereafter. Or you say I don't believe in God/hereafter and I don't care about reward/punishment in the hereafter. So I think it is extremely fair to those who believe and obey God's command that they are not held in the same standard as who don't.

2) Is there a punishment for changing one's religion in Islam?

No - but some do misinterpret and apply it.

"It is also significant that the Qur`an refers to apostasy several times (2:217, 3:86-90, 4:137, 9:66, 9:74, 16:106-109, 4:88-91, 47:25-27) and yet does not prescribe any punishment for it." [1]

On the contrary, it says "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah(God) hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah(God) heareth and knoweth all things." (Al-Qur'an 2:256)

The only circumstance where it was allowed was apostasy-cum-treason. When Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) executed apostates, he did it because Muslims were at war and because Islam was still partial, and Muslims needed protection from the hypocrites who purposely entered Islam and deserted it later to create confusion among the Muslims.

So again Islam stands just and fair.

[1]http://www.islamicperspectives.com/apostasy1.htm

3) Is the weight of testimony given by women unequal to that of a man's in Islam?

Only in matters relating to financial issues, it is mentioned that 2 women for 1 not for every situation.

For example, "And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;" (Al-Qur'an 24:6) Meaning, in case of marital dispute, if they(both husband and wife) have got no witnesses, their solitary evidence is sufficient.

However, in the case of financial matters, since the responsibility of the financial aspects has been laid on the shoulders of the man in Islam (as stated in one of the responses in OP)… he is naturally more comfortable in finance, as compared to the women. That's why it is such and it is only so one can remind the other if necessary. "...And get two witnesses of your own men, and if there are not two men then a man and two women such as you choose for witnesses - so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her..." (Al-Qur'an 2:282). I would add that it is more of a protection for women rather than degradation.

Read the following article to get yet a different perspective on this issue ...
Why two women witnesses? (www.sunnahonline.com)

Again, I see no issues with fairness here.


4) Is the distribution of inheritance unequal between men and women in Islam?

Yes, and it is absolutely fair and just. Given the following financial responsibilities on men, it is absolutely fair that a Son gets more than the Daughter from the Inheritance.

1) In order to get married, a man has to give a mutually agreed upon gift(mahr) to his wife for the marriage (just to show a perspective on things - currently that is roughly around $10,000 - $20,000 for middle class muslims in USA)
2) A man is solely responsible for providing for his family even if the wife works (so everything the wife earns is hers alone and everything the man earns is theirs)
3) If the father passes away or unable to support his family, the Son has to financially support the family including mother and unmarried sisters, brothers etc.

So once again Islam stands just and fair.


5) Are men and women forced to accept different gender roles in socieity in Islam?

Only in Islam ? Perhaps everywhere in the world ? It is something the Creator has decreed and no human can undo. Our creator has made us different physically, emotionally and who knows what other ways and hence the different roles. But that does not mean that one role is better/inferior to the other.

Can women serve in combat role in most military in the world ? Can a man give birth to a child ? Can a man breastfeed ? Why are there women's sports and men's sports held in separation if they are so equal (women's soccer vs. men's soccer etc) in every aspect ?

Just because Islam gives different roles to men and women does not mean one is inferior to the other. Islam raises the status of the women not degrades it unlike what the media portrays.

As a western muslim woman states "When asked, “Who is most deserving of our kind treatment?” the Prophet(pbuh) replied, “Your mother” three times before saying “your father” only once. Is that sexist? No matter what a man does he will never be able to have the status of a mother."

I highly recommend that you read her article to get a better perspective of those supposedly inferior gender roles here: A Woman

So to conclude I think Islam remains just and fair to all.
 

Photonic

Ad astra!
After the news of the US Embassy in Libya last night? Any real respect I had for Islam is being flushed away.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
I assume you are referring to the fact that muslims call themselves Slave of God. With that in mind, I would say sure it is fair. I would absolutely be willing to be an obedient servant of God doing good and avoiding evil in this transient world in return for an Eternal bliss in paradise. You must have heard of comp-time except the reward there is not infinite, where as for us the reward is Eternal.

"One should not confuse the negative connotations of servitude that people have come to understand. We can have a wonderful relationship with the Almighty if we stand firm in our beliefs and do as He wants, which is all good things. Remember that we have the choice of doing good or bad, slaves do not." [Taken from : Slaves of God [6484] -Overview of Islam - Understanding Islam ]

So yes, it is fair to be the Servant/Slave of the Almighty God.

Almost a nice dodge,no i am not talking about people who prostrate themselves willingly to a God,i am talking about those unfortunates who up to this day are enslaved,you know,"what your right hand possesses".
 

robo

Active Member
"Do you believe that Islam is a fair and just religion?"

No.

A 2 year old can reason that an eternal punishment for not believing in a jealous Allah in the finite lifetime I have on earth is neither fair nor just. :yes:
 
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