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Do you believe that Islam is a fair and just religion?

loverOfTruth

Well-Known Member
I believe no religion that professes hell can be found anything but hateful.

Sure, it may have good parts, but having the thought that it is okay for some humans to suffer eternally is inexcusable under all circumstances.

That is like making a list of our own personal criterion and then seeing which religion fits our 'desires'.

As stated in the Holy Qur'an :
"Satan promises them and arouses desire in them. But Satan does not promise them except delusion. The refuge of those will be Hell, and they will not find from it an escape. But the ones who believe and do righteous deeds - We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. [It is] the promise of Allah(God) , [which is] truth, and who is more truthful than Allah(God) in statement. Paradise is not [obtained] by your wishful thinking nor by that of the People of the Scripture. Whoever does a wrong will be recompensed for it, and he will not find besides Allah(God) a protector or a helper.And whoever does righteous deeds, whether male or female, while being a believer - those will enter Paradise and will not be wronged, [even as much as] the speck on a date seed.And who is better in religion than one who submits himself to Allah(God) while being a doer of good and follows the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth? And Allah(God) took Abraham as an intimate friend." Al-Qur'an (4:120-125)
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
I agree with My myself.

Having read the Quran I found hundreds of verses condemning people to eternal damnation in Hell for not believing in Allah, for being idolators or for going against his will as stipulated in the Quran.

Now indulge me, how could it be possibly fair and just to condemn somebody for eternity for temporal actions in a single lifetime? Also, given the fact that everybody has a different lifetime some living for as brief as a few weeks to others living for 120 years it is not fair because it means not all humans are given the same time on Earth to perform deeds or accept Allah.

Moreover, given that humans are all born in different circumstances, with different bodies and different capabilities or lack of capabilities, it means different humans are given different opportunities. For example if a human is condemned to eternal hell because they did bad deeds like stealing yet they were born in poor circumstances in a country experiencing war, and a human is granted heaven because they did good deeds, but they were born in rich circumstances in a country at peace, that hardly can be called fair.
 

Pink Top Hat

Active Member
The question about polygamy

What 'certain' Muslims do is follow one verse and ignore the other.


this is the one they follow

Quran 4.3

" And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of other women, two or three or four.But if you fear that you will not be just, then marry only one or those your right hand possesses."

Quran 4.129

"And you will never be able to be equal between wives, even if you should strive to do so."


The Quran is very clear.
Man cannot treat each wife equally therefore he is saying Man must only marry one wife at a time.
 

Pink Top Hat

Active Member
Meow Mix;3072283]

In Islam, is anyone punished for failing to believe there is no God but God and that Mohammed is His prophet?

No there is no compulsion in religion Quran 2.256

1) Is there a punishment for atheists in Islam?

No the Quran is very clear. "There is no compulsion in religion" Quran 2.256

2) Is there a punishment for changing one's religion in Islam?

No there is no compulsion in religion and the Quran states that any punishment is in the next world only for God to decide.

3) Is the weight of testimony given by women unequal to that of a man's in Islam?
[FONT=verdana,arial]First, when generally considered, in some instances of bearing witness to certain civil contracts, two men are required or one man and two women. Again, this is no indication of the woman being inferior to man. It is a measure of securing the rights of the contracting parties, because woman as a rule, is not so experienced in practical life as man. This lack of experience may cause a loss to any party in a given contract. So the Law requires that at least two women should bear witness with one man. If a woman of the witness forgets something, the other one would remind her. Or if she makes an error, due to lack of experience, the other would help to correct her. This is a precautionary measure to guarantee honest transactions and proper dealings between people. In fact, it gives woman a role to play in civil life and helps to establish justice. At any rate, lack of experience in civil life does not necessarily mean that women is inferior to man in her status. Every human being lacks one thing or another, yet no one questions their human status (2:282).[/FONT]


4) Is the distribution of inheritance unequal between men and women in Islam?

It is equal. A man is given double the woman because his duty is to look after the parents and a wife and his children. A woman is given half because she has no duty to provide for her parents her husband will have double from his inheritances therefore both are equal. In Islam every penny that a woman makes from a job or inherits is not part of the household income did you know that? Women have a legal right in Sharia to keep all money they have and not spend one penny on the house or family and any Sharia court will uphold that right. The man is the provider in Islam and not the woman so in fact if you look at it you could say that women in Islam are more rich and have more property and are wealthier than their husbands.

5) Are men and women forced to accept different gender roles in socieity in Islam?

No
You will find women do the same jobs as men. You will find women judges and pilots, scientists and politicians, Pakistan had women Prime Ministers such as Bhutto and the current Pakistani foreign minister is a woman. The United States of America has yet to elect a female president so is therefore behind Islamic Republic of Pakistan in that category. The prophets wives rode their camels in battle against the pagan attacks.
Just because Saudi Arabia is a backwards Wahabi nation that does not practice Islam don't assume that other Muslims dont. Iran universities have 70% women engineers and scientists far outstripping the men.
 

Pink Top Hat

Active Member
addition to question 3

In Islam the man is the provider and the woman has no pressure at all to work or provide. She can work if she wants to BUT the money she earns is entirely her own to do with as she pleases. All of her earnings and inheritance is protected by Sharia.
In the Muslim world the family is very important and because men are the providers the women generally chose to stay at home to bring up the family and Muslim families are extended and very close unlike Western ones. That means that many women prefer for the men to deal with problems, repairs, contracts, providing, all the usual things men should do but Western women have a different culture where they prefer day care for their kids and old peoples homes for their parents. Our culture is very different to yours. Most Muslim women do not like to be bothered with what we consider male tasks. Muslim men in fact have a great responsibility as providers for the parents and the wife and children. We do not put our parents into homes like the West. So because Muslim women are very focused on the home they leave everything else to the man and if they have a large family they do not work possibly and do not have experience in courts etc. Women do not bother themselves with such things.
They can if they want to but they leave most things like that to the men.
Muslim women are very different to Western women, it is a very different culture. We are very family orientated and our spare time is family time. Our men do not sit in bars, they come home from work and we all go out as a family each night. Our weather is also good all year so we spend a lot of time outdoors with our families.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
addition to question 3

In Islam the man is the provider and the woman has no pressure at all to work or provide. She can work if she wants to BUT the money she earns is entirely her own to do with as she pleases. All of her earnings and inheritance is protected by Sharia.
In the Muslim world the family is very important and because men are the providers the women generally chose to stay at home to bring up the family and Muslim families are extended and very close unlike Western ones.

You were doing so well until right there. Western families aren't close? No extended family either? That's news to me. :shrug:

That means that many women prefer for the men to deal with problems, repairs, contracts, providing, all the usual things men should do but Western women have a different culture where they prefer day care for their kids and old peoples homes for their parents.

:facepalm: Try again, please.

Our culture is very different to yours. Most Muslim women do not like to be bothered with what we consider male tasks. Muslim men in fact have a great responsibility as providers for the parents and the wife and children. We do not put our parents into homes like the West. So because Muslim women are very focused on the home they leave everything else to the man and if they have a large family they do not work possibly and do not have experience in courts etc. Women do not bother themselves with such things.
They can if they want to but they leave most things like that to the men.
Muslim women are very different to Western women, it is a very different culture. We are very family orientated and our spare time is family time. Our men do not sit in bars, they come home from work and we all go out as a family each night. Our weather is also good all year so we spend a lot of time outdoors with our families.

That is a outright insult to Muslim women in the West AND to ALL women in the West. I find it amusing that people of "your culture" don't tolerate stereotypes about Muslims and Muslim women, yet feel free to sling stereotypes at Western culture. Irony at its best. :rolleyes:
 

Pink Top Hat

Active Member
You were doing so well until right there. Western families aren't close? No extended family either? That's news to me. :shrug:



:facepalm: Try again, please.



That is a outright insult to Muslim women in the West AND to ALL women in the West. I find it amusing that people of "your culture" don't tolerate stereotypes about Muslims and Muslim women, yet feel free to sling stereotypes at Western culture. Irony at its best. :rolleyes:


different culture and if you lived in both for a time you would know the difference which you dont
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
different culture and if you lived in both for a time you would know the difference which you dont

I come from a Middle-Eastern culture, and I find that it has many problems that need to be addressed.

I don't think it's just some Western people who perceive problems within said culture; many Arabian people — myself included — are also all too aware of such problems and hope that they can be fixed. Realizing that there are problems is the first step toward progress, in my opinion.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
different culture and if you lived in both for a time you would know the difference which you dont

Hi, do you know me? Nope, didn't think so. If you spent 1/10th of your time here trying to find out about me instead of slinging insults, you'd know that I do indeed know a lot about Middle Eastern/South Asian culture. One doesn't have to reside there in order to know about it; I have family all over both locations, and I HAVE spent considerable time in both, so it turns out that indeed I do know something.

Instead of getting defensive, why not debate the topic at hand instead of playing the "I know more than you do" game.

Deal?
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Instead of getting defensive, why not debate the topic at hand instead of playing the "I know more than you do" game.

Deal?
But you're a woman and a Muslim! Clearly the best we can expect is veiled emotional apologetics ...
... as opposed to the cogent analysis from someone who, for example, claims the 'Basile' is probably a mossad agent.​
 
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beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
But you're a woman and a Muslim! Clearly the best we can expect is veiled emotional apologetics ...
... as opposed to the cogent analysis from someone who, for example, claims the 'Basile' is probably a mossad agent.​

Touche.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
I dont know ask the American Christians who had Muslim black slaves not so very long ago or the Jewish ship owners who shipped them to the New World to grow cotton.

You don't know if slavery is fair,doesn't the Qur'an say it is,as for your post,it seems like anti this and that gibba jabba and nothing to do with Islam.
 

loverOfTruth

Well-Known Member
addition to question 3

In Islam the man is the provider and the woman has no pressure at all to work or provide. She can work if she wants to BUT the money she earns is entirely her own to do with as she pleases. All of her earnings and inheritance is protected by Sharia.
In the Muslim world the family is very important and because men are the providers the women generally chose to stay at home to bring up the family and Muslim families are extended and very close unlike Western ones. That means that many women prefer for the men to deal with problems, repairs, contracts, providing, all the usual things men should do but Western women have a different culture where they prefer day care for their kids and old peoples homes for their parents. Our culture is very different to yours. Most Muslim women do not like to be bothered with what we consider male tasks. Muslim men in fact have a great responsibility as providers for the parents and the wife and children. We do not put our parents into homes like the West. So because Muslim women are very focused on the home they leave everything else to the man and if they have a large family they do not work possibly and do not have experience in courts etc. Women do not bother themselves with such things.
They can if they want to but they leave most things like that to the men.
Muslim women are very different to Western women, it is a very different culture. We are very family orientated and our spare time is family time. Our men do not sit in bars, they come home from work and we all go out as a family each night. Our weather is also good all year so we spend a lot of time outdoors with our families.

Generalization and stereotyping without actual substance with backed up facts/evidence doesn't help anyone. That's exactly why Mulsims in the west think other westerners don't understand them. I always try to remember : "O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah , witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do." (Al Qur'an 5:8) - but I admit sometimes I fall short on that as well.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I can't honestly say that any religion is "fair and just", because from the get-go, we are told that we are nowhere equal to the Creator. By that alone, there really is no "fairness".

As for me, I try to stay away from all the gray matter and focus on what's important to me, and that's more spiritual worship rather than an outward one. For me, that makes it so much easier rather than worrying about the nitpicky issues that cause so much friction.

So to answer your question, no... Islam is not fair and just, but show me one God-related religion that is.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
I can't honestly say that any religion is "fair and just", because from the get-go, we are told that we are nowhere equal to the Creator. By that alone, there really is no "fairness".

As for me, I try to stay away from all the gray matter and focus on what's important to me, and that's more spiritual worship rather than an outward one. For me, that makes it so much easier rather than worrying about the nitpicky issues that cause so much friction.

So to answer your question, no... Islam is not fair and just, but show me one God-related religion that is.

You are saying that islam isn't fair and just as well as all religions,but are you sincere with yourself to be a muslim while you believe that all religions including islam is unfair and unjust,i am just wondering.

i do really respect and honor the atheist when he make it clear for everybody that he doesn't believe on any religion,at least he is sincere with himself.
 

jazzymom

Just Jewish
I dont know ask the American Christians who had Muslim black slaves not so very long ago or the Jewish ship owners who shipped them to the New World to grow cotton.

Or the Arab slave traders who were Muslims. I think we can all agree that slavery was horrific and people from all 3 religions had a hand in it. And don't forget the Africans who sold their captives to the slave traders.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
You are saying that islam isn't fair and just as well as all religions,but are you sincere with yourself to be a muslim while you believe that all religions including islam is unfair and unjust,i am just wondering.

i do really respect and honor the atheist when he make it clear for everybody that he doesn't believe on any religion,at least he is sincere with himself.

No offense, FearGod, but I'm getting really annoyed with being compared to atheists and asking about my sincerity as being a Muslim every time I don't agree with "mainstream" Islam.

I request you to read my post again, and this time, read it thoroughly and try to understand what I'm actually saying.
 
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