Do you believe that Islam is a fair and just religion?

[TashaN]

You are saying that islam isn't fair and just as well as all religions,but are you sincere with yourself to be a muslim while you believe that all religions including islam is unfair and unjust,i am just wondering.

i do really respect and honor the atheist when he make it clear for everybody that he doesn't believe on any religion,at least he is sincere with himself.

While i don't agree with her statement that Islam is not just, but you don't have to question whether she is a sincere Muslim or not because you don't have the right to do so. if she feels Islam is not just, fine, either keep quiet or ask her why she feel so if you disagree. Many Muslims can be civil with non-Muslims but they can't do so with their brothers and sisters in Islam.

She sees how you behave then you wonder why she think Islam is not fair and just?

Don't you know that most of people see religion through the actions of those who adhere to it?

 

[TashaN]

I can't honestly say that any religion is "fair and just", because from the get-go, we are told that we are nowhere equal to the Creator. By that alone, there really is no "fairness".

As for me, I try to stay away from all the gray matter and focus on what's important to me, and that's more spiritual worship rather than an outward one. For me, that makes it so much easier rather than worrying about the nitpicky issues that cause so much friction.

So to answer your question, no... Islam is not fair and just, but show me one God-related religion that is.

Sometimes when people say Islam ... Islam ... Islam, i wonder if we are all talking about the same thing.

So just so i can understand where you are coming from, what does Islam mean, in your opinion? I don't need a formal definition. I just want to know when people say Islam, what is the first thing which comes to your mind?

 

[FearGod]

While i don't agree with her statement that Islam is not just, but you don't have to question whether she is a sincere Muslim or not because you don't have the right to do so. if she feels Islam is not just, fine, either keep quiet or ask her why she feel so if you disagree. Many Muslims can be civil with non-Muslims but they can't do so with their brothers and sisters in Islam.

She sees how you behave then you wonder why she think Islam is not fair and just?

Don't you know that most of people see religion through the actions of those who adhere to it?

No brother you did misunderstand me.
i am not saying she isn't a sincere muslim,but to be sincere in her choice of what religion she want to believe is right for her.

i am a frank man,what is in my heart is in my tongue.

Why i had to choose a religion while i feel and know is not fair and just,then where is the faith and where is the belief and where is the submission.

God isn't of need for any one of us.

i am a muslim and i am always worried to make any mistakes in explaining some issues about Islam because i fear god,it isn't my business if someone will accept Islam or not,but i only discuss what is my religion and what is my belief,just to be sincere with ourselves.

Lo! thou (O Muhammad) guidest not whom thou lovest, but Allah guideth whom He will. And He is Best Aware of those who walk aright. (28:56)

 

[Debater Slayer]

No brother you did misunderstand me.
i am not saying she isn't a sincere muslim,but to be sincere in her choice of what religion she want to believe is right for her.

i am a frank man,what is in my heart is in my tongue.

Why i had to choose a religion while i feel and know is not fair and just,then where is the faith and where is the belief and where is the submission.

God isn't of need for any one of us.

i am a muslim and i am always worried to make any mistakes in explaining some issues about Islam because i fear god,it isn't my business if someone will accept Islam or not,but i only discuss what is my religion and what is my belief,just to be sincere with ourselves.

Lo! thou (O Muhammad) guidest not whom thou lovest, but Allah guideth whom He will. And He is Best Aware of those who walk aright. (28:56)

You might not be seeing it this way, but changing one's religion is a very difficult and involved process. It isn't as simple as leaving a religion and entering another (or lack thereof) as some seem to think.

Religion isn't just about spirituality, in my opinion; it is also about culture and society, both of which usually have a significant effect on one's religious/non-religious beliefs.

 

[Madhuri]

I go back and forth with my opinion of Islam. Tashan is right, people see religion through the actions of it's adherents.

But at this point in time, from reading parts of the Muslim scriptures and from talking with a number of Muslims, I do not think Islam is fair or just. I can't help but perceive that it focuses on sinfulness and how horrible things will happen to anyone who doesn't believe in Allah. It seems to me to be filled with negativity. I'm not sure how to see it any other way. I've grown up in a religion that is full of love and light and tolerance so the contrast in teachings is so great that I can't help but think...Islam is unjust, unkind and very negative.

 

[FearGod]

I go back and forth with my opinion of Islam. Tashan is right, people see religion through the actions of it's adherents.

But at this point in time, from reading parts of the Muslim scriptures and from talking with a number of Muslims, I do not think Islam is fair or just. I can't help but perceive that it focuses on sinfulness and how horrible things will happen to anyone who doesn't believe in Allah. It seems to me to be filled with negativity. I'm not sure how to see it any other way. I've grown up in a religion that is full of love and light and tolerance so the contrast in teachings is so great that I can't help but think...Islam is unjust, unkind and very negative.

Watch please the few sayings by the prophet and the last sermon for the people when he was a knoweledged that his messege was ended,can you see any injustice or unfairness or do you think that there is some verses in the quran showing so.

[youtube]uLptFKCnVnc[/youtube]
WHO IS MOHAMMED ? - YouTube

[youtube]i3Xc1MfX9X8[/youtube]
The Prophet Muhammad's Last Sermon - YouTube

 

[Revoltingest]

A person who does not believe in the existence of God, denies or doubts the existence of another life after his death and rejects that He will meet God in the hereafter. So God will reward the good deeds of such a non-believer in this world with wealth, power, prosperity, health etc. but no share in the hereafter because they themselves reject the idea of hereafter. And they will suffer for their sins in the hereafter. And denying God is a big sin after so many signs have been given all over the universe. However, it is quite safe to assume that if the True message of God (The creator of the heavens and the earth and everything in and out of it) has really not reached a person, he/she will not be held accountable for it.

This is an odd idea of "fair". I know from personal experience & from that of others that disbelief in gods is not a matter of choice.
We are rational people who see no evidence for treating such myths as absolutely true. There is no way that we can trick ourselves to
believe that which we disbelieve. So we are punished for a choice never made. This god would create us knowing we face certain doom.

I also wonder about poster FearGod. Is your moniker indicative of how you feel about your creator as described in islam? If so, then how
would a "fair" god inspire this emotional state?

 

[FearGod]

This is an odd idea of "fair". I know from personal experience & from that of others that disbelief in gods is not a matter of choice.
We are rational people who see no evidence for treating such myths as absolutely true. There is no way that we can trick ourselves to
believe that which we disbelieve. So we are punished for a choice never made. This god would create us knowing we face certain doom.

I also wonder about poster FearGod. Is your moniker indicative of how you feel about your creator as described in islam? If so, then how
would a "fair" god inspire this emotional state?

Fear god is not the way you unserstand it,it is fear out of love and not terror.

He isn't pointing a gun on my head that i should be frightened by him,but i can make it easier for you to understand it by the fear that you'll lose someone,if you may know that your son will die by cancer,then you'll have the fear,but not about yourself,but that you'll lose someone whom you love so much and similar thing of such a fear that we will be away from god and that is hardly understood by some,but for muslims they do understand it and feel it.but i don't know about other beliefs.

 

[loverOfTruth]

I also wonder about poster FearGod. Is your moniker indicative of how you feel about your creator as described in islam? If so, then how
would a "fair" god inspire this emotional state?

God’s Mercy surpasses His Wrath. As Murata and Chitick suggests in their book titled ‘The Vision of Islam’: “One of the ways in which the Koran refers to the fact that the names of beauty and mercy represents God’s true nature more accurately than the names of majesty and wrath is in the statement that God’s mercy embraces all things. ‘I strike with My chastisement whom I will, but My mercy embraces all things.(7:156)’. The Koran never suggests that God is wrathful toward all things. He is wrathful only toward those creatures who refuse to accept His nearness to them”[4]. Yet both are necessary, as they further state,
“Without fear, people become bold and do whatever they want, not worrying about the consequences. Without hope they shrivel and die”[4]. Finally, their analysis of the attributes of God point out that the ‘fear of God’ is essentially a component of the 'mercy of God', because “the only logical way to act when you fear God is to go toward him, since there is nowhere to run. Likewise, hope and love for God encourage people to go toward him. Every relationship with God encourages seeking out nearness with him”[4].

Reference:
The Simple Message of GOD: A Catholic's Request: Dispelling the lies about Islam

 

[Revoltingest]

Fear god is not the way you unserstand it,it is fear out of love and not terror.
He isn't pointing a gun on my head that i should be frightened by him,but i can make it easier for you to understand it by the fear that you'll lose someone,if you may know that your son will die by cancer,then you'll have the fear,but not about yourself,but that you'll lose someone whom you love so much and similar thing of such a fear that we will be away from god and that is hardly understood by some,but for muslims they do understand it and feel it.but i don't know about other beliefs.

Hard to understand.....you fear losing a being who is an all-powerful creator of the universe?
How would such a loss even be possible?

 

[Revoltingest]

God’s Mercy surpasses His Wrath. As Murata and Chitick suggests in their book titled ‘The Vision of Islam’: “One of the ways in which the Koran refers to the fact that the names of beauty and mercy represents God’s true nature more accurately than the names of majesty and wrath is in the statement that God’s mercy embraces all things. ‘I strike with My chastisement whom I will, but My mercy embraces all things.(7:156)’. The Koran never suggests that God is wrathful toward all things. He is wrathful only toward those creatures who refuse to accept His nearness to them”[4]. Yet both are necessary, as they further state,
“Without fear, people become bold and do whatever they want, not worrying about the consequences. Without hope they shrivel and die”[4]. Finally, their analysis of the attributes of God point out that the ‘fear of God’ is essentially a component of the 'mercy of God', because “the only logical way to act when you fear God is to go toward him, since there is nowhere to run. Likewise, hope and love for God encourage people to go toward him. Every relationship with God encourages seeking out nearness with him”[4].

I read & comprehend your post, but I don't understand thinking this way.

 

[loverOfTruth]

I can't honestly say that any religion is "fair and just", because from the get-go, we are told that we are nowhere equal to the Creator. By that alone, there really is no "fairness".

As for me, I try to stay away from all the gray matter and focus on what's important to me, and that's more spiritual worship rather than an outward one. For me, that makes it so much easier rather than worrying about the nitpicky issues that cause so much friction.

So to answer your question, no... Islam is not fair and just, but show me one God-related religion that is.

You are saying that islam isn't fair and just as well as all religions,but are you sincere with yourself to be a muslim while you believe that all religions including islam is unfair and unjust,i am just wondering.

i do really respect and honor the atheist when he make it clear for everybody that he doesn't believe on any religion,at least he is sincere with himself.

Salaam all...
First of all, I would not dare judging anyone's state of belief - that is only for God, we do not know what is in someone's heart - only they and the Creator of the Heart knows.

Having said that, I find the statement 'Islam is not fair and just' from a Muslim problematic under the following grounds. If Islam was a man made religion, I would not have a problem with that statement. But the fact that one accepts Islam as their way of life presumes that He/She accepts that it is from God Almighty who is absolutely Just and Fair and will not do any injustice to anyone regardless of whether we can comprehend it or not.

That is why I have mentioned the following 2 things in the OP :
1. According to Islam, God is the most Just and will do no injustice to anyone. One of the attributes of God is Al-Adl (The Just). "The One who judges between His Servants in this life and the Hereafter with His Justice and Fairness. He will not oppress anyone to the extent of an atoms weight and none will be made to carry the encumbrance of another. No servant will be recompensed in a way that is greater than the magnitude of his sin, he will be given only what he deserves. Not a single persons right will be denied, He is Just in His regulation and decree." [Taken from godnames.org/godnames.php?f=godnames_36_50#50]

2. "But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah(God) Knows, while you know not." (Al-Qur'an 2:216)

Moreover, Justice and Fairness in Islam can only be calculated as a whole for the state of a person (in this world + the hereafter). Therefore, in my opinion, it is perfectly alright to say 'it doesn't seem fair to me but probably because of my own lack of understanding of the entire picture' as clearly stated by #2 above. But it is problematic to say 'it is not fair' knowing what is stated in #1 and #2.

Peace.

 

[loverOfTruth]

I read & comprehend your post, but I don't understand thinking this way.

Not clear what you mean by that ...

 

[FearGod]

Hard to understand.....you fear losing a being who is an all-powerful creator of the universe?
How would such a loss even be possible?

oh my god,

Losing his mercy and love,still hard to understand.

 

[beenie]

Salaam all...
First of all, I would not dare judging anyone's state of belief - that is only for God, we do not know what is in someone's heart - only they and the Creator of the Heart knows.

Having said that, I find the statement 'Islam is not fair and just' from a Muslim problematic under the following grounds. If Islam was a man made religion, I would not have a problem with that statement. But the fact that one accepts Islam as their way of life presumes that He/She accepts that it is from God Almighty who is absolutely Just and Fair and will not do any injustice to anyone regardless of whether we can comprehend it or not.

That is why I have mentioned the following 2 things in the OP :
1. According to Islam, God is the most Just and will do no injustice to anyone. One of the attributes of God is Al-Adl (The Just). "The One who judges between His Servants in this life and the Hereafter with His Justice and Fairness. He will not oppress anyone to the extent of an atoms weight and none will be made to carry the encumbrance of another. No servant will be recompensed in a way that is greater than the magnitude of his sin, he will be given only what he deserves. Not a single persons right will be denied, He is Just in His regulation and decree." [Taken from godnames.org/godnames.php?f=godnames_36_50#50]

2. "But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah(God) Knows, while you know not." (Al-Qur'an 2:216)

Moreover, Justice and Fairness in Islam can only be calculated as a whole for the state of a person (in this world + the hereafter). Therefore, in my opinion, it is perfectly alright to say 'it doesn't seem fair to me but probably because of my own lack of understanding of the entire picture' as clearly stated by #2 above. But it is problematic to say 'it is not fair' knowing what is stated in #1 and #2.

Peace.

How can it be fair to throw 4/5 of the population in hell? How? Unless I'm misunderstanding something...

 

[Revoltingest]

oh my god,
Losing his mercy and love,still hard to understand.

Well, as a lifelong heathen, yours is a perspective quite different from mine.
I don't understand why one would fear the loss of something you couldn't lose.

Not clear what you mean by that ...

I offer the same answer as I do to FearGod.

I am a salmon, & you're talking about the joy of riding a bicycle.
I won't understand easily.

 

[FearGod]

Well, as a lifelong heathen, yours is a perspective quite different from mine.
I don't understand why one would fear the loss of something you couldn't lose.

Exactly,in your case,you won't fear or worry to lose something which you don't have and i think you rely that all things
are managed by the unconscious nature which actually don't understand love,anger or mercy.

 

[Caladan]

I believe that Islam can be fair and just and also unfair and unjust. I find most religions to work that way.
There are many Muslims who are generous and larger than life, and I can imagine that their faith plays a role in it.

But it doesn't negat the fact that there is another side to Islam that many people observe with concern. Islam seems to be one of the religions which have not reached the stage where things have 'fallen into place'.

 

[FearGod]

How can it be fair to throw 4/5 of the population in hell? How? Unless I'm misunderstanding something...

But may i ask you just one question.

How do you know that 4/5 will be thrown to hell ?

 

[loverOfTruth]

How can it be fair to throw 4/5 of the population in hell? How? Unless I'm misunderstanding something...

Is it fair to deny/reject the Creator who gives us life, sustains us and bestows on us the blessings that we cannot finish counting ? Is it fair to those who believe and obey God's command that they are given the same status(recompensed the same way) as who don't ?

"...Allah(God) only tries you by this; and He will most certainly make clear to you on the resurrection day that about which you differed." (Al-Qur'an 16:92)

"... In the end will He tell them the truth of their conduct, on the Day of Judgment. For Allah(God) has full knowledge of all things." (Al-Qur'an 58:7)

"With Him are the keys of the unseen, the treasures that none knoweth but He. He knoweth whatever there is on the earth and in the sea. Not a leaf doth fall but with His knowledge: there is not a grain in the darkness (or depths) of the earth, nor anything fresh or dry (green or withered), but is (inscribed) in a record clear (to those who can read). It is He who doth take your souls by night, and hath knowledge of all that ye have done by day: by day doth He raise you up again; that a term appointed be fulfilled; In the end unto Him will be your return; then will He show you the truth of all that ye did." (Al-Qur'an 6:59-60)

Peace.