Do you believe the last two elections were fixed?

[Reverend Rick]

I have heard many folks say that George W. Bush was not really elected fairly.

One thing for certain, he is not helping the GOP with our next election, that's for sure.

Perhaps he knows something we all don't and is not worried about the next election.

Is it possible the next Presidential election will be stolen?

 

[PureX]

The first election was not "fixed", but when it came out so close, and Florida fell into confusion about a recount, the republicans sent in a team of "cheaters" who did exactly that, causing even more chaos. The result was the appeal to the courts, and to the Supreme Court, who at that point wisely denied letting the decision fall to congress. Bush was not elected, he was appointed by the court. This has been well documented.

In the second election, there were very serious flaws and deliberate manipulations by a very pro-republican character in Ohio (the man that designed and sold Ohio their new electronic voting machines, which left no paper trail to recount), that were simply swept under the rug without review because Bush was then the incumbent, and had the power to make those question go away. So it's quite likely that his re-election involved republican cheating as well, though we will now never know for sure.

But none of this cheating would have been effective if the vote had not been so amazingly close. And the vote will not be so close in this upcoming election. So I don't believe that the attempts at cheating, if they occur, will have any real effect on the next election.

However, our electoral procedures are seriously messed up, and we need to rebuild them from the ground up. And sadly, if this rebuilding were to occur, you can bet that both sides would be doing their level best to "fix" the new structure in their favor. Or at least in favor of incumbents. It's frustrating that such cheating has become the normal mode of behavior in government, and that as a result we can't trust our own government to do anything for the good of the people, anymore. And I don't know how to change this.

 

[Reverend Rick]

We change this by being more self sufficient and not relying on the government for guidance. The Federal Government should be reduced and state government should take a more positive role.

People who feel a certain way should migrate to some states and folks who feel another way could move to yet another region and everyone could be represented on a state level and live happier lives.

I have to tell you Gene, the country has never been so polarised and anything that had to receive the approval of both sides would not make either side very happy.

We need more Liberal states and we need more Conservative states and people need to migrate to an area that would represent them best.

The Federal government is trying to standardise all the states so it would not matter where you lived, one side would stuff their opinions down the other side's throat.

 

[PureX]

We change this by being more self sufficient and not relying on the government for guidance. The Federal Government should be reduced and state government should take a more positive role.

People who feel a certain way should migrate to some states and folks who feel another way could move to yet another region and everyone could be represented on a state level and live happier lives.

I have to tell you Gene, the country has never been so polarised and anything that had to receive the approval of both sides would not make either side very happy.

We need more Liberal states and we need more Conservative states and people need to migrate to an area that would represent them best.

The Federal government is trying to standardise all the states so it would not matter where you lived, one side would stuff their opinions down the other side's throat.

That's just a recipe for war between states. We had our civil war, and the states lost their right to be independant entities regarding human and civil rights. And it's issues of human and civil rights that you're really talking about, here, because this is where people in different regeons disagree with each other.

What we need are politicians to stop pandering to ignorance, hatred, prejudice and stupidity to get elected. And we need the media outlets to stop appealing to the same base and disgusting instincts just for the sake of viewership and profit. Because this is what has been polarizing the nation. And most of all, we as citizens need to stop buying into their disgusting lies and manipulations. We need to stop trying to make ourselves feel superior by letting our fellow citizens be slandered, and by slandering them, ourselves.

"States rights' is bull****. It's just code for: "The federal government won't let me have my way, so I want the state government (that I can control and manipulate) to be in charge, instead".

Maybe it's time for americans to remember that america is a big country, and there are other people living here with other needs, and other values than our own, and they have rights and freedoms, too. And we have a responsibility to respect and to ACCOMODATE those other people's rights and freedoms. That means we may have to SACRIFICE a little of having everything our own way!

Oh my God! Parish the thought!

 

[yossarian22]

First election, yes. He did not have the popular vote.
Second, probably no. Its difficult to mess with the popular vote, though its easier to mess around with the electorate vote, which brings me to my suggested fix.
We should probably get rid of the electorate, or at least overhaul the system. Its idiotic how states turn entirely red or blue. At least give each district an electoral vote, or something around those links

And cut the sensationalist crap coming out of the media. I have lost all respect for every news station save for BBC.

 

[Mathematician]

2000 was a work of careful plotting. I don't know if Bush was directly involved in the plan, but people close to him certainly were.

2004? A little suspicious but I'll say no.

We need more Liberal states and we need more Conservative states and people need to migrate to an area that would represent them best.

The Federal government is trying to standardise all the states so it would not matter where you lived, one side would stuff their opinions down the other side's throat.

I'd like to see more power directed to the states and communities, as well. If we were under a system of federations it's likely the United States would be divided. Unfortunately.

 

[yossarian22]

People who feel a certain way should migrate to some states and folks who feel another way could move to yet another region and everyone could be represented on a state level and live happier lives.

Oh christ that would be bad. You think we are polarised now?

I have to tell you Gene, the country has never been so polarised and anything that had to receive the approval of both sides would not make either side very happy.

This is precisely why the very notion of political parties needs to be destroyed.

 

[withoutfaith]

I'd lay money on it. Bush said he'd be president no matter what, and he meant it. In the first election, he lost so he got the supreme court to overturn the popular vote. In the second he was elected by faulty electronic polling machines.

 

[atomic47]

Every election is "fixed." If they weren't, why would so much money be contributed to candidates?

 

[View from Here]

Yes, they were clearly fixed.

 

[yossarian22]

Every election is "fixed." If they weren't, why would so much money be contributed to candidates?

So...
Elections are fixed because candidates receive donations for their campaign?

Yes, they were clearly fixed.

I can see the argument for the first one, although its rather weak as there is precedent for election without popular vote.
I would like to see your argument for the second vote

 

[Reverend Rick]

What are the chances of another fixed election?

 

[PureX]

What are the chances of another fixed election?

In states where the vote count is really close, and one party or another dominates the political scene, there is a good chance of election fraud. But overall, I'm not that worried about it this time around because I don't think the election is going to be very close. Not close enough for cheating to become effective, anyway.

(Remember, I'm from Chicago, where dead people routinely leave their graves to cast votes for the Daley "Machine".)

 

[Reverend Rick]

In states where the vote count is really close, and one party or another dominates the political scene, there is a good chance of election fraud. But overall, I'm not that worried about it this time around because I don't think the election is going to be very close. Not close enough for cheating to become effective, anyway.

(Remember, I'm from Chicago, where dead people routinely leave their graves to cast votes for the Daley "Machine".)

I believe the only electable Democrat is John Edwards. Hillary would cause a very close election again. Obama would divide the country as well making for a close election.

Think about it, two families have controlled the highest office for 20 years now. Hillary could make this a 24 or 28 year control issue.

 

[McBell]

I believe the only electable Democrat is John Edwards. Hillary would cause a very close election again. Obama would divide the country as well making for a close election.

Think about it, two families have controlled the highest office for 20 years now. Hillary could make this a 24 or 28 year control issue.

{sarcasm}
But that was the will of the people...
{/sarcasm}

 

[Reverend Rick]

{sarcasm}
But that was the will of the people...
{/sarcasm}

Was it? That is my question. Will it happen again? Purex thinks the next election will be a land slide. If you listen to the folks on the internet, I can see how you might believe this.

The Democrats will choose a Liberal candidate, but Moderates will decide the election. The more Liberal the candidate, the more closer the election will be making a greater chance for a fixed election a possibility.

 

[McBell]

Was it?

No.
Gore had the popular vote.
Interesting, is it not, how the state that had Bush's brother as its governor at the time is the one that had all the 'problems?'

That is my question. Will it happen again?

As long as there is the electorial college, yes it will happen again.
Will it happen the next election?
Perhaps.
Perhaps not.
To early to tell if you ask me.

Purex thinks the next election will be a land slide. If you listen to the folks on the internet, I can see how you might believe this.

i think it is really to early to tell one way or the other.

The Democrats will choose a Liberal candidate, but Moderates will decide the election. The more Liberal the candidate, the more closer the election will be making a greater chance for a fixed election a possibility.

Seems you agree that it is too early to tell.

 

[PureX]

I believe the only electable Democrat is John Edwards. Hillary would cause a very close election again. Obama would divide the country as well making for a close election.

Think about it, two families have controlled the highest office for 20 years now. Hillary could make this a 24 or 28 year control issue.

She ain't gettin' my vote.

I don't think Obama is all that divisive, though, and to tell you the truth, I don't think as many people hate Hillary as you imagine. And they LOVE Bill, even still. I like Edward's message, but I don't really trust him. He has no record that would suggest that he'd do anything about the problems that he's pointing out. I like Biden, too, but he's a career politician who so far has done nothing to indicate that he's really the reformer he's pretending to be. I suspect both of them would mean more of the same old toadying to the rich. I wish I could say otherwise, because I'd really like to believe that we're finally going to put someone in office that will represent all the people, and not just the wealthy and the holier-than-thou.

But look at the MESS on the other side! NONE of those clowns is electable!

 

[blackout]

Every election is "fixed." If they weren't, why would so much money be contributed to candidates?

agreed. the whole system itself is a "fix".
just follow the money trail all the way to the top....

 

[Random]

If the corporate Media machine can't get people to vote how "they" want them to vote, elections will be fiddled to get the desired result. Sad fact of our illusory "Democracy".