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Thats a real interesting take. I tend to think awareness is a little more involved within nature itself, which would be "mind". I really like the spinozan take and I've heard it argued he was more panentheistic.Gday all,
Well yes, I call myself a panentheist
God is everywhere and in everything,
but is yet much more than that.
Sometimes I call myself a Spinozan Panentheist.
Spinoza rejects pantheism in a letter to Henry Oldenburg : "as to the view of certain people that I identify god with nature (taken as a kind of mass or corporeal matter), they are quite mistaken".
But describes something rather panentheistic - the underlying substance of all (called 'God or Nature') is expressed through the modes of Thought and Existence. (Mind you, he can be rather confusing )
Which captures the idea that All is part of the Mind of God.
Kapyong
When speaking to Christians I call myself a Catholic (I am a member after all, and it annoys the fundamentalist evangelical Protestants). When speaking to others I just say I believe in God. They usually don't want to discuss philosophy anyway; no sense disturbing them.As you may know, 'Panentheism' is not a religion, it's more of a theological position. There are some religions out there that are considered 'Panentheistic' but do you, as a non-religious individual, call yourself a 'Panentheist'? How is that the term you use to define your beliefs to others?
Hi,
As you may know, 'Panentheism' is not a religion, it's more of a theological position. There are some religions out there that are considered 'Panentheistic' but do you, as a non-religious individual, call yourself a 'Panentheist'? How is that the term you use to define your beliefs to others?
Kind of like:
Person A: Hi, are you a christian or a jew?
Person B: No, I am a Panentheist.
Person A: A what?
Person B: ...
Awkward.
Hi,
As you may know, 'Panentheism' is not a religion, it's more of a theological position. There are some religions out there that are considered 'Panentheistic' but do you, as a non-religious individual, call yourself a 'Panentheist'? How is that the term you use to define your beliefs to others?
Kind of like:
Person A: Hi, are you a christian or a jew?
Person B: No, I am a Panentheist.
Person A: A what?
Person B: ...
Awkward.
Interesting approach. But some monotheistic religions (e.g. Christianity) are actually dualistic in that they consider their deity to be separate from the world.Panentheism is the most redundant category of all because it is just Monotheism, period. However Monotheism itself is also a redundant later category (thanks to Western historiographers , orientalists etc) because it is identical with Monism.
Then there's the irony of a lot of Polytheism which is really Monotheism too (like Hinduism which is par excellence to this).
Basically there is only Monism (Monotheism/Panentheism/Polythiesm/Nihilism etc) and Dualism (Atheism/Materialism).
Interesting approach. But some monotheistic religions (e.g. Christianity) are actually dualistic in that they consider their deity to be separate from the world.
How is atheism and materialism dualistic? They believe there is only one essence, namely matter.
Okay, from that stance I'd agree that they are monistic. Just, there are a lot of dualistic tendencies in Christianity, especially among what actual Christians believe as opposed to what their scripture says.Hey, I don't deny that there are tendencies among the mainstream for them to interpret dualism onto their tradition/religion, however it's certainly not what the Bible (in the case of Christianity) nor what the earlier sects of Christianity (like Eastern Orthodox) teach in essence.
As for 'separate from the world', one thing I truly appreciate deeply from studying and practicing Islam, was the notion of taking quote-unquote "Monotheism" seriously. Of course, Islam isn't monotheistic though, it believes that God is Oneness or Unity (the concept of Tawhid). Within this understanding of "monotheism" we realize that both in theology and philosophy, if we are to accept Monotheism, then we cannot consider 'the world' (or the Universe more accurately by extension) to be separate from God, or else you would me making a logical error that contradicts the premise of Monotheism by turning the world/universe into a second God. (this is Islamic theology/philosophy, I love it, it's very sharp and straight to the point about Shirk there)
Hence, if you're a Christian, then you have to take God's "omnipresence" literally.
When it comes to Islam in this case, everything that 'exists' (externally manifest) is a reflection of a name of God, which dims because the universe is veiled (al-Hijab) from God metaphysically, but nothing is separate from it.
Perhaps what confuses me most about general Christianity though, is that they consider Jesus and YHWH (whatever YHWH even is) as 'more God' than the Burning Bush and figure on the throne (Ezekiel's vision). When really, God is not any of them, they are only mirages of theophany reflecting back the divine essence of God, which is Ultimate Reality itself.
They consider mind a mere emanation from matter or just an illusion. That and the rest you said don't seem very dualistic to me.They consider: Matter to be real, they considers mind and body to be occupying different aspects of existence, they see everything as a result of entropy essentially, they take time and space as literal concepts, they see existence as merely contingent on particles bumping into each other, there are many more aspects to this - but it's very strongly dualistic.
Hey what verse is that? Thats a good one to fill the gap of many christians who ask my view of God.
He is not entirely wrong. Like I said before, for a Greek Orthodox Christian “god is everywhere and within everything”. That's pretty much Pantheistic.
I am a non-religious panentheist, but I would not as a rule introduce my worldview in that particular way but would rather just say that I practise tantra-yoga.Hi,
As you may know, 'Panentheism' is not a religion, it's more of a theological position. There are some religions out there that are considered 'Panentheistic' but do you, as a non-religious individual, call yourself a 'Panentheist'? How is that the term you use to define your beliefs to others?