Do you consider circumcision child abuse?

[Gharib]

Some time ago I was speaking with a co-worker about circumcision and he was saying that in some countries and by some people it is viewed as child abuse.

If you are one such person who considers it to be child abuse, then isn't it child abuse to separate conjoined twins? In some cases there is the potential of one of them dying and in some cases one or both of them die.

Why is circumcision frowned upon when there is benefit in doing it just as there is benefit in separating conjoined twins? And the down side to separating twins is they could die due to complications, but with circumcision there are no complications. None that I've heard of anyway.

Any thoughts?

 

[Revoltingest]

De minimis child abuse.

 

[Falvlun]

I do not think male circumcision as normally practiced should be considered child abuse, though it is an unnecessary procedure with ethical questionability.

Female circumcision certainly is.

 

[Falvlun]

Some time ago I was speaking with a co-worker about circumcision and he was saying that in some countries and by some people it is viewed as child abuse.

If you are one such person who considers it to be child abuse, then isn't it child abuse to separate conjoined twins? In some cases there is the potential of one of them dying and in some cases one or both of them die.

Why is circumcision frowned upon when there is benefit in doing it just as there is benefit in separating conjoined twins? And the down side to separating twins is they could die due to complications, but with circumcision there are no complications. None that I've heard of anyway.

Any thoughts?

Though I do think comparing separating conjoined twins to circumcision is a bit ridiculous.

There are many medical and quality of life reasons for separating conjoined twins. There are no such medical or quality of life reasons for circumcision except in rare cases of deformation.

A better parallel would be between circumcision and things like ritual tattoos or piercings. It is simply a cosmetic procedure sometimes accompanied by religious beliefs.

 

[Riverwolf]

Though I do think comparing separating conjoined twins to circumcision is a bit ridiculous.

There are many medical and quality of life reasons for separating conjoined twins. There are no such medical or quality of life reasons for circumcision except in rare cases of deformation.

A better parallel would be between circumcision and things like ritual tattoos or piercings. It is simply a cosmetic procedure sometimes accompanied by religious beliefs.

That, at least in regards to male circumcision. Female circumcision is ABSOLUTELY child abuse.

...forgive my ignorance, but are there cultures that ritually pierce or tattoo infants?

 

[Alceste]

I consider it child abuse. I don't think the "benefits" are worth the agony inflicted on baby boys. Good personal hygiene does a fine job.

Female circumcision is grotesque and horrific.

 

[dawny0826]

Unless a female of her own free will and sound mind chose circumcision for herself, I deem it horribly abusive, but look at what it is. It is an actual mutiliation.

Male circumcision is hardly comparable. I do not deem it to be abusive, in general. I think that this is a decision that parents should have the ability to make, be it for religious or practical reasons. The only WRONG decision is the uneducated decision.

Pediatricians who do not take the time to educate new parents on possible negate after effects, do an injustice to both parents and of course the babies. As with any surgical procedure, there are risks to consider.

But the "skinny" on this is that those who are adamantly against this, do not have to have their babies circumcized. Don't yell "abuse" at those parents who do make informed choices for their children.

The dudes in my personal life are circumcised (babies included) and are fine. My sister and I talked about the circumcision of her boys, after I posted on another thread. Both healed within a week and were fine afterwards. She and her husband made an informed choice with their pediatrician. Who the hell are "you" to tell them that they're abusive parents?

If we value religious freedoms in the United States, circumcision happens to be a very important component within several faiths and I think it's the responsibility of parents to make that decision for their children and for other people to allow these people to worry about consequences and accountability for whatever may happen to these boys as a result.

I birthed two girls. But, if I had boys, they'd be circumcised and I'd offer the lot of you who are adamamently against it and would label me a "child abuser" no apologies whatsoever.

 

[Alceste]

I'm not screaming that it's abusive. I'm observing that it's abusive. The emotional reaction you perceive to that particular choice of words is probably your own.

 

[Father Heathen]

I consider it child abuse. I don't think the "benefits" are worth the agony inflicted on baby boys. Good personal hygiene does a fine job.

Thanks for your concern but my penis and I were and are perfectly fine.

Female circumcision is grotesque and horrific.

No argument here. The two aren't remotely comparable.

 

[Riverwolf]

If we value religious freedoms in the United States, circumcision happens to be a very important component within several faiths

Skull deformation is an important component in many faiths, as was human sacrifice once. Ought they be considered okay under US religious freedom?

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm observing that it's abusive.

3rd person anecdotes aren't observations.

 

[Father Heathen]

Skull deformation is an important component in many faiths, as was human sacrifice once. Ought they be considered okay under US religious freedom?

So having my foreskin cut is equivalent to having my skull crushed or my life taken?

 

[dawny0826]

Skull deformation is an important component in many faiths, as was human sacrifice once. Ought they be considered okay under US religious freedom?

Did you read my prior post?

I don't translate female circumcism to be comparable to male circumcism, because I don't deem the latter to be abusive. I do however, deem female circumcism to be abusive.

Why the hell do you think I'd find skull alteration to be acceptable? No. Place that in the bucket with female circumcism and other atrocities.

Sorry. I think some of you overreact to male circumcism.

 

[Alceste]

3rd person anecdotes aren't observations.

Eh? I'm just saying, if I've got a bouncing baby boy in my arms, giggling and burping and crapping its pants, as babies do, the absolute last thing that's going to cross my mind is "I think I'll slice off a little piece of his penis. It'll be good for him!"

Seriously. Think about it. If you were the first to do it, what would other people think of you? You'd go to jail. Religion is the only reason this is still being done to little boys. People generally don't think for themselves, and some pretty obnoxious traditions are the result. I don't think tradition is a good excuse.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I don't consider it child abuse, but there's no medical reason for it to be done. Neither of my two boys are circumcised. I understand that some religions do it for religious reasons, and this is fine, but medically, there's no reason to do it. But to consider it child abuse, I find that to be a stretch.

 

[dawny0826]

I'm not screaming that it's abusive. I'm observing that it's abusive. The emotional reaction you perceive to that particular choice of words is probably your own.

You can't "observe" something unless you're seeing it routinely.

Of course it's my own. And if you identify as one of the "lot", that's on you.

 

[Father Heathen]

Eh? I'm just saying, if I've got a bouncing baby boy in my arms, giggling and burping and crapping its pants, as babies do, the absolute last thing that's going to cross my mind is "I think I'll slice off a little piece of his penis. It'll be good for him!"

Seriously. Think about it. If you were the first to do it, what would other people think of you? You'd go to jail. Religion is the only reason this is still being done to little boys. People generally don't think for themselves, and some pretty obnoxious traditions are the result. I don't think tradition is a good excuse.

I have a circumcised penis, and have experienced no negative consequences, and feel that's its preferable due to hygienics and aesthetics.

My experience invalidates your "observation".

 

[Caladan]

Some time ago I was speaking with a co-worker about circumcision and he was saying that in some countries and by some people it is viewed as child abuse.

If you are one such person who considers it to be child abuse, then isn't it child abuse to separate conjoined twins? In some cases there is the potential of one of them dying and in some cases one or both of them die.

Why is circumcision frowned upon when there is benefit in doing it just as there is benefit in separating conjoined twins? And the down side to separating twins is they could die due to complications, but with circumcision there are no complications. None that I've heard of anyway.

Any thoughts?

I don't see how circumcision is comparable to a life saving procedure such as separating conjoined twins. There is non conclusive information about the health benefits of circumcision, so it is quite different from complicated surgeries with different necessities.
Personally I don't find male circumcision to be abuse. I've observed dozens of circumcisions, it is a very short procedure in which the mother seems to be more stressed than the baby, and the men seem to be happy with the final product as they become adults.

 

[Alceste]

I have a circumcised penis, and have experienced no negative consequences, and feel that's its preferable due to hygienics and aesthetics.

My experience invalidates your "observation".

So you remember the procedure then?

I'm not talking about FH's penis. I'm talking about slicing up the genitals of an infant boy.

If it were voluntary I'd have no problem with it.

Edit: by voluntary I mean of course the man whose penis is bring cut up, not the future man's parents.

 

[Alceste]

I don't see how circumcision is comparable to a life saving procedure such as separating conjoined twins. There is non conclusive information about the health benefits of circumcision, so it is quite different from complicated surgeries with different necessities.
Personally I don't find male circumcision to be abuse. I've observed dozens of circumcisions, it is a very short procedure in which the mother seems to be more stressed than the baby, and the men seem to be happy with the final product as they become adults.

The babies don't cry? There's no pain?