Do you consider circumcision child abuse?

[Riverwolf]

So having my foreskin cut is equivalent to having my skull crushed or my life taken?

No. Just addressing the religious freedom argument. ^_^

 

[Riverwolf]

Did you read my prior post?

I don't translate female circumcism to be comparable to male circumcism, because I don't deem the latter to be abusive. I do however, deem female circumcism to be abusive.

Why the hell do you think I'd find skull alteration to be acceptable? No. Place that in the bucket with female circumcism and other atrocities.

Sorry. I think some of you overreact to male circumcism.

Just wondering since you mentioned religious freedom, I wonder, then, where the line is drawn?

 

[Revoltingest]

Just wondering since you mentioned religious freedom, I wonder, then, where the line is drawn?

Skull shaping is an interesting practice. If there are no medical maladies caused by it,
then how would it differ from circumcision, other than being more visible in public?

Contrast this with foot binding, which interferes with running, walking, & standing.

 

[dawny0826]

Eh? I'm just saying, if I've got a bouncing baby boy in my arms, giggling and burping and crapping its pants, as babies do, the absolute last thing that's going to cross my mind is "I think I'll slice off a little piece of his penis. It'll be good for him!"

Seriously. Think about it. If you were the first to do it, what would other people think of you? You'd go to jail. Religion is the only reason this is still being done to little boys. People generally don't think for themselves, and some pretty obnoxious traditions are the result. I don't think tradition is a good excuse.

For those that choose to have this done to their babies within a clinical setting - it's typically done within the first 3 days from birth, before Mom and baby are released from the hospital.

A lot of parents discuss the procedure with a pediatrician before the baby is born, if they know they're having a boy. For those who don't select their pediatriacian before birth, there's usually consultation in-hospital with a pediatrician before the procedure it's done. It's such common practice in the US, if you're having a baby boy, you're essentially electing to or not to circumcise before being released from the hospital.

It's often preferred that the procedure be done within days from birth.

 

[Alceste]

For those that choose to have this done to their babies within a clinical setting - it's typically done within the first 3 days from birth, before Mom and baby are released from the hospital.

A lot of parents discuss the procedure with a pediatrician before the baby is born, if they know they're having a boy. For those who don't select their pediatriacian before birth, there's usually consultation in-hospital with a pediatrician before the procedure it's done. It's such common practice in the US, if you're having a baby boy, you're essentially electing to or not to circumcise before being released from the hospital.

It's often preferred that the procedure be done within days from birth.

That doesn't negate my opinion that it is an absurd and abusive practice. Leeching and bleeding used to take place in consultation with a physician as well.

 

[Father Heathen]

So you remember the procedure then?

Exacty.

 

[Father Heathen]

The babies don't cry? There's no pain?

Not with this cool, new thing called "anesthetics".

 

[ChristineES]

No. I don't consider circumcision to be abuse.

 

[mycorrhiza]

I consider it abusive, as it's an unnecessary and permanent procedure done on a person who can't consent to it. The same goes for tattoos, ear stretching, scarification, etc. If you want your foreskin cut off when you turn 18, then that's totally fine.

 

[Union jack]

Wouldn't erections complicate the anesthetic properties in the healing process for 18 year-olds?

 

[mycorrhiza]

Wouldn't erections complicate the anesthetic properties in the healing process for 18 year-olds?

Doctors already perform adult circumcisions, so I don't think it would be an issue. It probably heals much faster than getting a piercing down there.

 

[Gharib]

Though I do think comparing separating conjoined twins to circumcision is a bit ridiculous.

There are many medical and quality of life reasons for separating conjoined twins. There are no such medical or quality of life reasons for circumcision except in rare cases of deformation.

A better parallel would be between circumcision and things like ritual tattoos or piercings. It is simply a cosmetic procedure sometimes accompanied by religious beliefs.

Just to be clear, which I should have been in the OP I do mean male circumcision not female.

As for comparing it with conjoined twins, I know they are two very different cases however both procedures are most of the time done at a young age where the child has no say. I guess ritual tattoos and piercings are of this category too. Basically anything done to the body of a child while they are young I see as a good example for comparison.

 

[Gharib]

The babies don't cry? There's no pain?

The only reason I cried was because I entered a room which had that hospital smell to it and I knew it meant getting a needle. Otherwise I knew I was getting circumcised and I had no problem with it. I was about 3 at the time. I still remember pretty much everything from walking to the room and lying down to waking up home.

 

[Breathe]

I don't know.

I do dislike it and don't think it's fair to do it to infants and newborns. Later on, though, I don't have a problem with it (or ritual tattooing or scarification, or whatever) if it's left up to the child as he grows up.

The problem with circumcising newborns is that they can't consent.
But abuse? I don't know. I can see arguments for both.

 

[Gharib]

I don't know.

I do dislike it and don't think it's fair to do it to infants and newborns. Later on, though, I don't have a problem with it (or ritual tattooing or scarification, or whatever) if it's left up to the child as he grows up.

The problem with circumcising newborns is that they can't consent.
But abuse? I don't know. I can see arguments for both.

But it part of life not to have a say in some things. I mean if you believe in God and then think about the fact that we have no say in dying, does that make God evil and does that make the whole dying thing evil too?

The child gets no say in many things and the reason for circumcision being done at a young age is because he won't remember it nor be affected in any way such as be traumatized from the experience.

One could say that birth is painful too since the newborn always cries. But because no one has any memory of it, no one can say that it is painful it's like it has never happened.

 

[Riverwolf]

I should point out that I believe in levels of abuse, and therefore one form of abuse is not like unto another. Some are far an away more severe than others, such as ones that will, without fail, cause psychological scarring, which circumcision that young absolutely does not (surely the birthing process itself is more scarring.)

 

[Aquitaine]

Personally, I don't think it should be done. There's no conclusive benefits to having the procedure done. The arguement in-support of male circumcision for babies (other than for Religious reasons) seems to just be "meh, why not?".


Tough **** - it's not your body. I'm uncircumcised and I would hate the idea of having less foreskin, I just don't see the benefits of such a procedure. However, if you're 18 and you wanna get a nerve-filled section of your foreskin removed for no benefit what-so-ever, then be my guest.


But for goodness sake don't mutilate the body of an individual who is too young to consent, just to satisfy your own personal ideas on what would be "cool". :no:

 

[Aquitaine]

But it part of life not to have a say in some things. I mean if you believe in God and then think about the fact that we have no say in dying, does that make God evil and does that make the whole dying thing evil too?

The child gets no say in many things and the reason for circumcision being done at a young age is because he won't remember it nor be affected in any way such as be traumatized from the experience.

One could say that birth is painful too since the newborn always cries. But because no one has any memory of it, no one can say that it is painful it's like it has never happened.

If God wanted Human males circumcised, he would've just designed them already-trimmed.

 

[dawny0826]

Wouldn't erections complicate the anesthetic properties in the healing process for 18 year-olds?

Yes. My ex-husband had a circumcism performed when he was 16 and the healing process was incredibly problematic for him. Healing time is significantly reduced for infants.

 

[Aquitaine]

Yes. My ex-husband had a circumcism performed when he was 16 and the healing process was incredibly problematic for him. Healing time is significantly reduced for infants.

As is the tangibility of consent......