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Do You Desire Greatness?

Do you desire greatness?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 15.8%
  • No

    Votes: 15 78.9%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 1 5.3%

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .

Treasure Hunter

Well-Known Member
See post #18
I just googled “orthodox definition of pride”, read it, and didn’t learn anything new.

Pride is denying or blinding yourself to your own sin due to lack of humility.

How is theosis supposed to happen if Christ is the embodiment of greatness and the orthodox Christian denies the desire for greatness?

Peter was the disciple in whom Christ put his hope. When Peter requested to Jesus that Jesus tell him to perform the miracle of walking on water, an act of greatness, Jesus didn’t say “no, that is prideful.” He told Peter “come”.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
As illustrated through scripture, the people who God relates to and uses to do his will often are people who have a desire for greatness, whether it was Abraham and Isaac through lineage or Moses through a promised land.
Abram never wrote a word of any story in torah/bible. Not his fault.

Moses was the guy per torah, that left the central authority of thebes. Taking Egyptians with him.

The stories were not written by the characters. The narratives are not actual but opinions. For example, hebrew is a language, not a people. Just as israel is a country sought for, not a people. And genesis was an attempt to describe 'the beginning' not a documentary of events.

The idea that them 2 posed for greatness is man made. Story telling, with a hero so to speak.
That was a different time, and greatness should no longer be identified through lineage or land, but what was being represented still remains.
Great point. Kings queens, pharaohs and dictators enjoyed the idea of conquest and 'the chosen' ones by god. Practically neanderthal to be accepted.
It’s the desire to have a meaningful, lasting impact well into the future.
All that lives want to survive into the future. That is practically instinctive, just like procreation.
I’m wondering what percent of people here identify with this idea.

Just about all, except for the few that have been beaten down to believe themselves unworthy and incapable.

That is what is beautiful about the next chapter: the unveiling. Each can learn factual foundations to actually be capable to make a difference and know it.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
As illustrated through scripture, the people who God relates to and uses to do his will often are people who have a desire for greatness, whether it was Abraham and Isaac through lineage or Moses through a promised land.

That was a different time, and greatness should no longer be identified through lineage or land, but what was being represented still remains. It’s the desire to have a meaningful, lasting impact well into the future. I’m wondering what percent of people here identify with this idea.
No
 

idea

Question Everything
There were a few areas of life in which I took a great interest: music, theatre, science. I think, in theatre, I would have liked -- if not to be "great" -- at least to be less mediocre than I turned out to be. In music, while I love to play the piano, I'll never play in a concert -- again, not good enough. I did pretty well in science, since I built a good career in Information Technology, with at least one invention that earned my company some millions of dollars.

But now, late in life, the one thing in which I think it might have been nice to be "great" is in reaching people who are obviously going the wrong way in the rabbit hole -- to frame my arguments such that they might pierce the armor of prejudice and dogma that, usually without factual basis, so grips so many people.

And in that, I think I've failed. Certainly, for all the writing I've done of RF, my successes have been very sadly less than stellar.

And then, I remember that such stellar minds as Gallileo and Copernicus couldn't convince the Catholic Church, whose leaders were the most educated people in the world at the time (the lowliest Catholic priest still has earned the equivalent of a Masters Degree in any accredited university). So maybe I'm not so bad -- maybe the ambition itself is unachievable, by virtue of human nature itself.

I've come to the conclusion that real change has to come from within. To escape dogma and think for oneself - it really is thinking for yourself, no one else can tell you how to do it or it's just following more dogma. Usually it is something really painful that forces someone to stand on their own two feet - takes a rabbit hole perhaps. No one can pull them out. They have to experience pulling themselves out to realize their own strengths. Self reliance.

Everyone is just at a different stage in their journey. Have to just say that serenity prayer, do what you can, encourage everyone, but can't carry anyone else's cross, can't show them their strengths - they have to find it themselves.

"I thought someone could tell me how to paint the landscape, but I never found that person. I had to just settle down and try. I thought someone could tell me how, but I found nobody could. They could tell me how they painted their landscape, but they couldn’t tell me how to paint mine." - Georgia O'Keeffe

I don't think anyone can tell another how.... takes that solo hike.
 
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Bthoth

Well-Known Member
I've come to the conclusion that real change has to come from within. To escape dogma and think for oneself - it really is thinking for yourself, no one else can tell you how to do it or it's just following more dogma. Usually it is something really painful that forces someone to stand on their own two feet - takes a rabbit hole perhaps. No one can pull them out. They have to experience pulling themselves out to realize their own strengths. Self reliance.

Everyone is just at a different stage in their journey. Have to just say that serenity prayer, do what you can, encourage everyone, but can't carry anyone else's cross, can't show them their strengths - they have to find it themselves.

"I thought someone could tell me how to paint the landscape, but I never found that person. I had to just settle down and try. I thought someone could tell me how, but I found nobody could. They could tell me how they painted their landscape, but they couldn’t tell me how to paint mine." - Georgia O'Keeffe

No one can tell another how....
i loved that post.
 

Treasure Hunter

Well-Known Member
Usually it is something really painful that forces someone to stand on their own two feet - takes a rabbit hole perhaps.
People have a strong resistance to completely surrendering to the bottom. Going down the rabbit hole as you say.

What’s more hidden, however, is the strong resistance people have of aiming at greatness. It’s the forbidden fruit where many people — unlike their resistance to surrendering at rock bottom — believe it’s actually virtuous to cut themselves off from greatness. As displayed in this thread.

It’s part of the socialization process, so people have no need to feel guilty about it. At the same time, it’s limiting humanity in a disastrous way.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Sometimes I think how great it would be to be remembered and have my memory honored for centuries or longer, as being wise or smart or whatever...

Sometimes I think how great it would be to be the progenitor of millions of descendants, who go on and do wondrous things with their lives, to be remembered as that honored ancestor...

But no...all that's just feeding my ego...

If I could...if I could save millions or billions of lives, solve problems that sorely try humans and the Earth today and in the future, so that all that come after may live in health and peace and happiness (let's no worry too much about definitions here, okay?)...If I could do that, through action or sacrifice of myself, I would do so even if no one ever knew who I was or what I had done, if my memory was erased from all who knew me, knew of me, or was descended of me. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one...it would be a fair deal...indeed, it might even be a deal if it only meant survival and prosperity for a small portion of humanity and the Earth...
 

Treasure Hunter

Well-Known Member
Sometimes I think how great it would be to be remembered and have my memory honored for centuries or longer, as being wise or smart or whatever...

Sometimes I think how great it would be to be the progenitor of millions of descendants, who go on and do wondrous things with their lives, to be remembered as that honored ancestor...

But no...all that's just feeding my ego...

If I could...if I could save millions or billions of lives, solve problems that sorely try humans and the Earth today and in the future, so that all that come after may live in health and peace and happiness (let's no worry too much about definitions here, okay?)...If I could do that, through action or sacrifice of myself, I would do so even if no one ever knew who I was or what I had done, if my memory was erased from all who knew me, knew of me, or was descended of me. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one...it would be a fair deal...indeed, it might even be a deal if it only meant survival and prosperity for a small portion of humanity and the Earth...
I’m going to make a claim: It’s impossible to actively desire greatness for other selves if you don’t actively desire it for yourself.

Another related claim: It’s impossible to sustain an active desire for greatness within yourself if you don’t desire it for other selves.

Final claim: It’s impossible to actualize greatness without actively desiring it.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
What is great? What makes one great? I'm very good at my job amd it's in the medical field. Does that make me great
 

Treasure Hunter

Well-Known Member
What is great? What makes one great? I'm very good at my job amd it's in the medical field. Does that make me great
I would say (1) it’s exceptional to the point of transcending the upper bound of the expected, (2) it’s beneficial (relevant) to humanity 1,000 years into the future, and (3) consciousness expanding, meaning your state of consciousness is affected when in contact with it.

It’s something like the above.
 

idea

Question Everything
People have a strong resistance to completely surrendering to the bottom. Going down the rabbit hole as you say.

What’s more hidden, however, is the strong resistance people have of aiming at greatness. It’s the forbidden fruit where many people — unlike their resistance to surrendering at rock bottom — believe it’s actually virtuous to cut themselves off from greatness. As displayed in this thread.

It’s part of the socialization process, so people have no need to feel guilty about it. At the same time, it’s limiting humanity in a disastrous way.

It all goes back to how you define "greatness". An Olympic athlete might be considered "great" by some, but if you talk to the athlete they may tell you they gave up their friends, gave up their family, gave up reading books, gave up enjoying vacation, gave up peace and happiness to spend days and years for one small moment of glory - just to be forgotten again. (how many Olympians can you name?) Many "great" people are miserable, unhappy folks...

It depends on how you define great.
It depends on what makes you feel genuinely great about life.

For me, the little things are the big things.

Climbing out of a depressed hole might involve realizing that becoming a gold medalist isn't actually the key to happiness.
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I would say (1) it’s exceptional to the point of transcending the upper bound of the expected, (2) it’s beneficial (relevant) to humanity 1,000 years into the future, and (3) consciousness expanding, meaning your state of consciousness is affected when in contact with it.

It’s something like the above.
Quite a few that history remembers as a great don't meet that.
 

Treasure Hunter

Well-Known Member
It all goes back to how you define "greatness". An Olympic athlete might be considered "great" by some, but if you talk to the athlete they may tell you they gave up their friends, gave up their family, gave up reading books, gave up enjoying vacation, gave up peace and happiness to spend days and years for one small moment of glory - just to be forgotten again. (how many Olympians can you name?) Many "great" people are miserable, unhappy folks...

It depends on how you define great.
It depends on what makes you feel genuinely great about life.

For me, the little things are the big things.

Climbing out of a depressed hole might involve realizing that becoming a gold medalist isn't actually the key to happiness.
I completely understand why people choose to avoid the extremes - both the upper and lower. I just reject the notion that these people have actualized greatness.

I have less tolerance for the Christians doing it for the reason I stated earlier.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
I agree that Christ is the model for greatness. I’m wondering how Christians reconcile this while denying their desire for greatness..


His humility, compassion and selflessness were defining qualities of his greatness.

These are not qualities generally associated with greatness, in a world which values power, status and wealth above goodness, mercy and love.
 

idea

Question Everything
I completely understand why people choose to avoid the extremes - both the upper and lower. I just reject the notion that these people have actualized greatness.

I have less tolerance for the Christians doing it for the reason I stated earlier.

There are different kinds of extremes too. Live deeply. You can live so extremely deeply within the little things.

"Try to learn to breathe deeply, really to taste food when you eat, and when you sleep, really to sleep. Try as much as possible to be wholly alive with all your might, and when you laugh, laugh like hell. And when you get angry, get good and angry. Try to be alive. You will be dead soon enough."

Ernest Hemingway
 

Treasure Hunter

Well-Known Member
There are different kinds of extremes too. Live deeply. You can live so extremely deeply within the little things.

"Try to learn to breathe deeply, really to taste food when you eat, and when you sleep, really to sleep. Try as much as possible to be wholly alive with all your might, and when you laugh, laugh like hell. And when you get angry, get good and angry. Try to be alive. You will be dead soon enough."

Ernest Hemingway
I would call this mindfulness, which is a useful skill. I was speaking more to desire.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
It’s the desire to have humanity 1,000 years in the future universally agree that you had a meaningful and beneficial impact on humanity. That’s simply what I mean. Do you desire that?
You're talking about fame or social glory. No, I don't care about everyone knowing my name. I prefer if they didn't. I don't even wear my name badge at work because I don't even want the customers to know it. But sure, I'd like to make a positive impact on my part of the world I can influence.
 

Treasure Hunter

Well-Known Member
You're talking about fame or social glory. No, I don't care about everyone knowing my name. I prefer if they didn't. I don't even wear my name badge at work because I don't even want the customers to know it. But sure, I'd like to make a positive impact on my part of the world I can influence.
They’re not mutually exclusive. I’d argue they’re actually correlated - social disconnection and the desire for greatness. I’ve almost always kept a low profile.
 
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