Do you do Qur'anic commands?

[mojtaba]

Hi my friends.
I have a question.
If Holy Qur'an is sufficient and we do not need any hadith, what must we do with this verses?

33: 21 "VERILY, in the Apostle of God you have a good example for everyone who looks forward [with hope and awe] to God and the Last Day, and remembers God unceasingly."

59:7 "Accept what the Apostle gives you, and refrain from what he forbids."

4: 59 "O You who believe! obey Allah and obey the apostle and owners of authority from amongst you. then if dispute in aught refer it Unto Allah and the apostle if you indeed believe in Allah and the Last Day." Please consider the repeat of obey.

We believe that hadithes are interpretation of the Qur'an. But There are different methods for gaining trust in the authenticity of a hadith:
1) Authentication of the text and chain of narrators.
2) Comparing the copies.
3) The agreement of the hadith's text with the clear teachings of the Qur'an.
and other cases. There are experts for science of hadith who can recognize true hadithes.

 

[NoX]

I have replies for your question but I would like you to find the answers yourself. For example verse 33:21, based on what you understand it as Allah wants you to follow hadiths ?

 

[leibowde84]

Hi my friends.
I have a question.
If Holy Qur'an is sufficient and we do not need any hadith, what must we do with this verses?

33: 21 "VERILY, in the Apostle of God you have a good example for everyone who looks forward [with hope and awe] to God and the Last Day, and remembers God unceasingly."

59:7 "Accept what the Apostle gives you, and refrain from what he forbids."

4: 59 "O You who believe! obey Allah and obey the apostle and owners of authority from amongst you. then if dispute in aught refer it Unto Allah and the apostle if you indeed believe in Allah and the Last Day." Please consider the repeat of obey.

We believe that hadithes are interpretation of the Qur'an. But There are different methods for gaining trust in the authenticity of a hadith:
1) Authentication of the text and chain of narrators.
2) Comparing the copies.
3) The agreement of the hadith's text with the clear teachings of the Qur'an.
and other cases. There are experts for science of hadith who can recognize true hadithes.

Just out of curiosity, how many Hadiths are there? And, are there contradictions between them? Further, is adherence to a specific Hadith kind of the same as different denominations in Christianity? What I mean is are the separation of Islamic Denominations dependent on adherence to different Hadiths?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Union]

Hi my friends.
I have a question.
If Holy Qur'an is sufficient and we do not need any hadith, what must we do with this verses?

33: 21 "VERILY, in the Apostle of God you have a good example for everyone who looks forward [with hope and awe] to God and the Last Day, and remembers God unceasingly."

59:7 "Accept what the Apostle gives you, and refrain from what he forbids."

4: 59 "O You who believe! obey Allah and obey the apostle and owners of authority from amongst you. then if dispute in aught refer it Unto Allah and the apostle if you indeed believe in Allah and the Last Day." Please consider the repeat of obey.

Peace Mojtaba . Thanks a lot for bringing such an important topic here though it has been discussed in past many times . But no harm to do it again
Have you noticed something Mojtaba, in those verses, that you cited, there is something common . All cited verses are saying 'and follow the messenger' ( Wa Atiyyu Rasulu..) . Not a single time it says ' Follow Muhammad ' . Not only the verses you cited , in fact in the whole Qur'an this is similar case . Almighty ALLAH's word choosing is very deliberate and full of indications . Follow the Messenger has a lot to ponder and please bear with me :

01. Messenger = Who deliver the message
=> Obey the messenger = Obey the message he delivered .

And we know very well that Prophet Muhammad (p) was sent to deliver GOD’s message the Qur’an , nothing else .

[005:092] Obey Allah and obey the messenger, and beware! But if ye turn away, then know that the duty of Our messenger is only plain conveyance (of the message).

[064:012] Obey Allah and obey His messenger; but if ye turn away, then the duty of Our messenger is only to convey (the message) plainly.

[005:067] O Apostle! deliver what has been revealed to you from your Lord; and if you do it not, then you have not delivered His message, and Allah will protect you from the people; surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people.

[005:099] The duty of the messenger is only to convey (the message). Allah knoweth what ye proclaim and what ye hide.

Therefore , ‘Obey the messenger ‘ = Obey the Qur’an .

02. Why not for a single time All-knowing ALLAH did reveal ‘ Obey GOD and obey Muhammad’ but HE did reveal ‘Obey GOD and obey the messenger’ more than 25 times ? Was it a coincidence? No, not at all .All-knowing GOD’s deliberate word choosing in the Qur’an always lead us to the right path . Muhammad , the human was not extraordinary . Like any average human he did make mistakes and slipped away in many occasions . Muhammad without the message is just a regular human being, he frowned and turned away when the blind poor man came to him, (See 80:1-11), he feared the people when he was supposed to fear only God, (See 33:37), and he prohibited what he should not prohibit, (See 66:1)

That is why there has never been a single order in the Quran from God,the Most Cognizant to "Obey Muhammad." If we were to obey Muhammad the human being,(not the messenger), we were to frown at the poor, fear the people instead of God and prohibit what God did not. We are required to obey the messenger, because it is the message (QURAN) that made the obedience a requirement, not the person, Muhammad, that made it a requirement. If Sunnah of Human Muhammad is obligatory for us , we surely have been commanded by Almighty by the expression ‘ Obey GOD and Muhammad’ . It is very interesting to observe that even the wives of the Prophet were not instructed to obey the ‘Husband Muhammad’ but were instructed gravely to obey ‘Messenger Muhammad’ in verse 33:30-31 .

Also consider the following verses as the evidence for what we have discussed :

[018:110] Say, “Surely, I am just a man like you. Revelation has been sent to me that your God is only one God! Hence, those hoping to meet their Lord should seek the righteous acts, and should not accept any partners in the worship of their Lord!”

[093:007] He found you unguided, and guided you!

[042:052] And thus did We reveal to you an inspired book by Our command. You did not know what the Book was, nor (what) the faith (was), but We made it a light, guiding thereby whom We please of Our servants; and most surely you show the way to the right path:

03. Another misunderstanding encircled around the phrase ‘ Obey GOD and obey the messenger’ is that they are two different entities : 01) Obey GOD which is Qur’an & 02) Obey the messenger which is the Sunnah . But such is not the case . This phrase expresses a single unit of instructions through an inseparable obedience . Almighty GOD clarified :

[004:080] He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you as a watcher over them.

Also please ponder on the following verses whereas GOD and the messenger are being expressed as the single entity in action and in obedience in return :

[009:001] Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty.

If Allah releases the believers from the treaty, the Messenger automatically does too.

[002:279] And if ye do not, then be warned of war (against you) from Allah and His messenger. And if ye repent, then ye have your principal (without interest). Wrong not, and ye shall not be wronged.

Notice, the war is from Allah as well as the Messenger, although it is waged physically by the Messenger.

[003:172] As for those who heard the call of Allah and His messenger after the harm befell them (in the fight); for such of them as do right and ward off (evil), there is great reward.

Again, the same concept above.

[004:100] Anyone who emigrates in the cause of GOD will find on earth great bounties and richness. Anyone who gives up his home, emigrating to GOD and His messenger, then death catches up with him, his recompense is reserved with GOD. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

"[059:008] (And there is also a share in this booty) for the poor emigrants, who were expelled from their homes and their property, seeking Bounties from Allah and to please Him. And helping Allah and His Messenger . Such are indeed the truthful (to what they say);-

In the above verse, how does a person help Allah? Does Allah need any help? No but the People were asked to help the messenger and they did so. Yet, the expression "Allah and His Messenger" is used. This is because they are a single 'entity' to be heeded.

[009:003] And a proclamation from Allah and His messenger to all men on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that Allah is free from obligation to the idolaters, and (so is) His messenger. So, if ye repent, it will be better for you; but if ye are averse, then know that ye cannot escape Allah. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve,

The 'proclamation' is made by the Messenger himself to all people, yet it is from "Allah and His Messenger".

[005:033] The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter.

In the above verse, if one fights the messenger, he automatically 'fights' Allah too. All these verses prove that Allah and His messenger are a single entity to be obeyed.

04. With grave tone Almighty Lord frequently reminded us that the authority of legislation in Islam belongs to HIM ONLY . HE is our Master and all of us , including all the Prophets and messengers are HIS servants . None of us has the upper hand to share/add/supplement laws with the laws of Almighty GOD . This is equally applicable to all the Pr0phets and the messengers .Almighty ALLAH clarifies :

[012:040] You do not serve besides Him but names which you have named, you and your fathers; Allah has not sent down any authority for them; ‘HUKUMAH’ is only Allah's; He has commanded that you shall not serve aught but Him; this is the right religion but most people do not know:

[018:026] Say: Allah knows best how long they remained; to Him are (known) the unseen things of the heavens and the earth; how clear His sight and how clear His hearing! There is none to be a guardian for them besides Him, and He does not make any one His associate in His ‘HUKUMAH’

[006:057] Say (O Muhammad SAW): "I am on clear proof from my Lord (Islamic Monotheism), but you deny (the truth that has come to me from Allah). I have not gotten what you are asking for impatiently (the torment). The ‘HUKUM’ is only for Allah, He declares the truth, and He is the Best of judges."

That is the very reason Almighty ALLAH didn’t assign any authority to Prophet Muhammad for making laws for the Muslims , rather HE instructed the Prophet to follow the Qur’an and to rule the people according to the legislation as found in the Qur’an :

[006:050] Say: "I tell you not that with me are the treasures of God, nor do I know what is hidden, nor do I tell you I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me." Say: "can the blind be held equal to the seeing?" Will ye then consider not?

[007:203] If thou bring them not a revelation, they say: "Why hast thou not got it together?" Say: "I but follow what is revealed to me from my Lord: this is (nothing but) lights from your Lord, and Guidance, and mercy, for any who have faith."

[010:015] And when Our clear communications are recited to them, those who hope not for Our meeting say: Bring a Quran other than this or change it. Say: It does not beseem me that I should change it of myself; I follow naught but what is revealed to me; surely I fear, if I disobey my Lord, the punishment of a mighty day.

[046:009] Say: I am not the first of the apostles, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner.

[005:048] And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;

[005:049] And that you should judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires, and be cautious of them, lest they seduce you from part of what Allah has revealed to you; but if they turn back, then know that Allah desires to afflict them on account of some of their faults; and most surely many of the people are transgressors.

Now if Prophet Muhammad himself was obliged to follow the Qur’an ONLY , then what the expression ‘ Obey the Messenger’ should imply to ?

Obey the Messenger = Obey the message he delivered = Obey the Laws he followed = Obey the Qur’an

We believe that hadithes are interpretation of the Qur'an. But There are different methods for gaining trust in the authenticity of a hadith:
1) Authentication of the text and chain of narrators.
2) Comparing the copies.
3) The agreement of the hadith's text with the clear teachings of the Qur'an.
and other cases. There are experts for science of hadith who can recognize true hadithes.

Qur'an is the only book that the whole Muslim nation has consensus on , otherwise on no Hadith book Muslim set their consensus on . Sunni trust Bukhari to be Sahih and they have well established Ilm-ul-Hadith to back their claims s still Shia dismissed that and deem it to be a heresy work . The opposite is true when Shia Ahadith are the concern for the Sunni .

Hadith literature were created some well hundreds years after the demise of the Prophet which Prophet Muhammad had no clue of .

Shia Muslim made their own Hadith books and Sunni did the same . The Ulm Hadith and anything in it ( Matn , Rijal ,Sanad etc.) all are fallible human discretions as per the Sectarian beliefs . Nothing divine in it , nothing solid .

 

[Union]

Just out of curiosity, how many Hadiths are there? And, are there contradictions between them? Further, is adherence to a specific Hadith kind of the same as different denominations in Christianity? What I mean is are the separation of Islamic Denominations dependent on adherence to different Hadiths?
Thanks in advance for your help.

Its a pleasure to repose you Sir . Yes there are hundred thousands of hadith existed among Sunni and Shia communities . These are contradicting a lot in many ways . The main reason of the separation of these two major sects of Muslim nation is Hadith .

They both believe in the same Qur'an , but they have their dozens of Hadith books that they blame one another for fabrication .

Sunni major Hadith books and the number of Ahdith in them :

01. Bukhari - 7,000+
02. Muslim- 7,000+
03.Tirmidhi- 4,000
04.Sunan A Dawud- 4,500
05. Ibn Majah- 4,000+
06.Sunan Nasi- 5,000+
07. Muatta Malik -1,700+

Shia major Hadith books and the number of Ahdith in them :

01. Al-Kafi - 15,000+
02. Nahj AlBalagah - 500+ ( letters , sermons etc.)
03.Bihar Al Anwar - 110 Volmes ( hundred thousands ahadith ...)

 

[leibowde84]

Its a pleasure to repose you Sir . Yes there are hundred thousands of hadith existed among Sunni and Shia communities . These are contradicting a lot in many ways . The main reason of the separation of these two major sects of Muslim nation is Hadith .

They both believe in the same Qur'an , but they have their dozens of Hadith books that they blame one another for fabrication .

Sunni major Hadith books and the number of Ahdith in them :

01. Bukhari - 7,000+
02. Muslim- 7,000+
03.Tirmidhi- 4,000
04.Sunan A Dawud- 4,500
05. Ibn Majah- 4,000+
06.Sunan Nasi- 5,000+
07. Muatta Malik -1,700+

Shia major Hadith books and the number of Ahdith in them :

01. Al-Kafi - 15,000+
02. Nahj AlBalagah - 500+ ( letters , sermons etc.)
03.Bihar Al Anwar - 110 Volmes ( hundred thousands ahadith ...)

Thanks for your informative response. This helps a lot. I had no idea there were so many in circulation. Would you say that they are read/used in ceremony a lot, or is the Qur'an the primary source for even all of these groups? Just so you know, I understand what you are saying in that the Qur'an should be the primary source, but I am just curious as to how other Muslims treat the Hadiths in practicing their faith.

 

[Union]

Thanks for your informative response. This helps a lot. I had no idea there were so many in circulation. Would you say that they are read/used in ceremony a lot, or is the Qur'an the primary source for even all of these groups? Just so you know, I understand what you are saying in that the Qur'an should be the primary source, but I am just curious as to how other Muslims treat the Hadiths in practicing their faith.

Theoretically they say that Qur'an is their primary source of religion while it is an eye-wash t . Their 90% affairs are determined by their Hadith , rest if not less may have an influence of Qur'an . Just listing a few for your perusal :

01. Killing Apostates - Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
02. Stoning the adulterers - - Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
03. Women veiled top to bottom-- Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
04. Women is half of men - Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
05. Women can't work alone outside - Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
06. Child marriage- Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
07. 5 prayers a day - Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
08.Music is forbidden - Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
09.Pictures and images are forbidden- Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
10.Force fight/offensive battle to spread Islam- Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .

List can go a long way , but let me stop here .

 

[leibowde84]

Theoretically they say that Qur'an is their primary source of religion while it is an eye-wash t . Their 90% affairs are determined by their Hadith , rest if not less may have an influence of Qur'an . Just listing a few for your perusal :

01. Killing Apostates - Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
02. Stoning the adulterers - - Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
03. Women veiled top to bottom-- Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
04. Women is half of men - Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
05. Women can't work alone outside - Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
06. Child marriage- Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
07. 5 prayers a day - Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
08.Music is forbidden - Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
09.Pictures and images are forbidden- Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .
10.Force fight/offensive battle to spread Islam- Not in Qur'an but in Hadith .

List can go a long way , but let me stop here .

Music is forbidden?! What?! Can you give me a citation for that? I have major problems with that. In my opinion, music is about the closest we will ever come to being close to God. It is the only thing that, even today, I can depend on to bring tears of happiness to my eyes, no matter how down I am initially. I have played music since my parents forced me to play the cello at the age of 4 and went through 7 years of music theory school after that. It made me a better person in more ways than I can count, so I am now making it my mission to debunk that statement in that Hadith.

What do you personally think about this rule? And the others too. And, thanks again for helping me to understand. This is an aspect of Islam that I never could get my head around after having read the Qur'an several times in school.

 

[NoX]

LoL, Union I really respect for your effort and patience

 

[leibowde84]

LoL, Union I really respect for your effort and patience

I respect him too. He's posted 2 comments and I've learned a ton already. Looking forward to more.

 

[Union]

Music is forbidden?! What?! Can you give me a citation for that? I have major problems with that. In my opinion, music is about the closest we will ever come to being close to God. It is the only thing that, even today, I can depend on to bring tears of happiness to my eyes, no matter how down I am initially. I have played music since my parents forced me to play the cello at the age of 4 and went through 7 years of music theory school after that. It made me a better person in more ways than I can count, so I am now making it my mission to debunk that statement in that Hadith.

What do you personally think about this rule? And the others too. And, thanks again for helping me to understand. This is an aspect of Islam that I never could get my head around after having read the Qur'an several times in school.

Music is one of the wonderful creations of Almighty GOD ever . A nation hating music is a nation having hearts of stones . Unfortunately there are many Ahadith exist among Sunni and Shia Muslim which strongly prohibited Music .

Shia Hadith :

"A person who possesses a sitar, on the day of Qiyamat will be raised with a black face. His hands will be holding a sitar of fire. Seventy thousand angels with maces of fire will be hitting him on the face and the head. The singer will arise from his grave, blind, deaf and dumb. The adulterer will be similarly raised. The player of flute will also be made to rise in this way as will be the drum player."
(Mustadrakul Wasael)

Sunni Hadith :

The Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said : "A people of my Ummah will drink wine, calling it by other than its real name. Merriment will be made for them through the playing of musical instruments and the singing of female singers. Allah (SWT) will cleave the earth under them and turn others into apes and swine." (Narration of Ibn Maajah )

 

[Union]

LoL, Union I really respect for your effort and patience

Lol! I blushed my olive skin ....

I am the biggest learner here with the smallest capacity of teachings . Thanks a lot for your inspiration

 

[Union]

I respect him too. He's posted 2 comments and I've learned a ton already. Looking forward to more.

Thanks for your inspiration . I am grateful . May Almighty GOD bless you .

 

[leibowde84]

Thanks for your inspiration . I am grateful . May Almighty GOD bless you .

Right back at you, my friend. I love this site. I learn so much every day from people in very different situation than my own. I feel like this kind of thing should be a mandatory exercise for kids in school around the globe.

 

[mojtaba]

Just out of curiosity, how many Hadiths are there? And, are there contradictions between them? Further, is adherence to a specific Hadith kind of the same as different denominations in Christianity? What I mean is are the separation of Islamic Denominations dependent on adherence to different Hadiths?

Thanks in advance for your help.

There are many hadiths in shia books which are almost in 4 books.
Usul-al kafi(about 16121)
Man lā yahduruhu al-Faqīh( about 5998)
Tahdzib-al ahkam(13988)
Estebsar(5511)
Another book is bahar-al anvar.(85173)
There are many same hadiths in these books. Also, all of their hadiths aren't true and the duty of relevant experts is to distinguish true hadiths from fabricated hadiths.
Difference between Shiites and Sunnites: What is the difference between Shia and Sunni? - Questions Archive - IslamQuest is a reference for Islamic questions on the internet

 

[mojtaba]

I have replies for your question but I would like you to find the answers yourself. For example verse 33:21, based on what you understand it as Allah wants you to follow hadithes ?

Because if Prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h.) is an example for us, we must know his lifestyle.
But because you do not accept any hadith, you can not know all aspects of his life to choose him as an example for yourself.

 

[leibowde84]

Because if Prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h.) is an example for us, we must know his lifestyle.
But because you do not accept any hadith, you can not know all aspects of his life to choose him as an example for yourself.

I mean, whoever wrote any Hadith was making assumptions/inferences by necessity. And, assuming that Muhammad was the last prophet from God, they wouldn't be able to claim divine inspiration for the Hadiths. That means that living by the Hadiths is tantamount to following the intuitions of men living ages ago. I feel like it is far more reasonable to use reason/logic or a relationship with God to figure out how Muhammad would want you to live rather than just trusting ancient men who may or may not have been accurate.

 

[mojtaba]

Peace Mojtaba . Thanks a lot for bringing such an important topic here though it has been discussed in past many times . But no harm to do it again
Have you noticed something Mojtaba, in those verses, that you cited, there is something common . All cited verses are saying 'and follow the messenger' ( Wa Atiyyu Rasulu..) . Not a single time it says ' Follow Muhammad ' . Not only the verses you cited , in fact in the whole Qur'an this is similar case . Almighty ALLAH's word choosing is very deliberate and full of indications . Follow the Messenger has a lot to ponder and please bear with me :

01. Messenger = Who deliver the message
=> Obey the messenger = Obey the message he delivered .

And we know very well that Prophet Muhammad (p) was sent to deliver GOD’s message the Qur’an , nothing else .

Thank you dear Union.
I have two replies for your answer.
1. You have said: " All cited verses are saying 'and follow the messenger' ( Wa Atiyyu Rasulu..) . Not a single time it says ' Follow Muhammad ' ".
Also you have said: " Messenger = Who deliver the message => Obey the messenger = Obey the message he delivered ".

But you have said these from your imagination, not from Holy Qur'an. Qur'an says another thing:
Al-fath(48), 90 : " Mohammad is God’s messenger " => messenger = Mohammad => follow the messenger = follow Mohammad.

2. In this reply, I assumed that your reply is correct(while it is not):
If you say that, Obey the messenger = Obey the message he delivered, what you say about this verse?
4: 59 "O You who believe! obey Allah and obey the apostle and owners of authority from amongst you(we believe that they are our 12 Imams).

Also read this verse:
20: 90 " Aaron had indeed told them earlier: "O my people, you are being only misled with this. Surely your Lord is Ar-Rahman. So follow me and obey my command" ".
This saying of Aaron( follow me and obey my command) was before the revelation of the Torah to Moses. So, how you explain this saying?

 

[NoX]

Because if Prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h.) is an example for us, we must know his lifestyle.
But because you do not accept any hadith, you can not know all aspects of his life to choose him as an example for yourself.

Okay, I accept your propositon as "true" for a moment, then tell me, what if these hadiths had not reached to us today ? We could not be Muslims. Or maybe some of these hadiths were lost and maybe the Muhammad granpa said some important things and we are not aware of it today ? So if Islam needs to hadiths, then probably we could not be Muslims today. As a believer you believe in that Allah saves Quran but are there such a guarantee by him that he will also save Hadiths ?

I'm not going into so much details, I can suggest many similar things but I dont want you to be confused so much. Just think about what I said above.

 

[mojtaba]

Qur'an is the only book that the whole Muslim nation has consensus on , otherwise on no Hadith book Muslim set their consensus on . Sunni trust Bukhari to be Sahih and they have well established Ilm-ul-Hadith to back their claims s still Shia dismissed that and deem it to be a heresy work . The opposite is true when Shia Ahadith are the concern for the Sunni .

Hadith literature were created some well hundreds years after the demise of the Prophet which Prophet Muhammad had no clue of .

Shia Muslim made their own Hadith books and Sunni did the same . The Ulm Hadith and anything in it ( Matn , Rijal ,Sanad etc.) all are fallible human discretions as per the Sectarian beliefs . Nothing divine in it , nothing solid .

My friend, your saying is a slander against the Shiites. Who said you that ' Sunni trust Bukhari to be Sahih and they have well established Ilm-ul-Hadith to back their claims s still Shia dismissed that and deem it to be a heresy work . The opposite is true when Shia Ahadith are the concern for the Sunni '.
This is not true. Our Clerics use true hadiths which are in our brother Sunni books.
Please read this saying from Imam Ali (the first Imam of Shia's Imams) which is in Nahjul Balagha, sayings, 80:
Knowledge and wisdom are really the privilege of a faithful Muslim. If you have lost them, get them back even though you may have to get them from the apostates.