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Do you have Free Will?
- Thread starter Awoon
- Start date
So is "bovine."
dust1n
Zindīq
So is "bovine."
Maybe innately, all words are, if that is what you are getting at.
But with bovine, one can say it and I pretty much know what they are referring to given any circumstance or place in which the word has been used.
Free will on the other hand is basically entirely devoid of any cogent understanding.
But perhaps if you'd like to provide one, I'd be happy to talk about why it doesn't exist or why I don't think it is "free will."
I.S.L.A.M617
Illuminatus
Free will= the ability to make choices.
What is a choice?
I.S.L.A.M617
Illuminatus
choice [chois] Show IPA noun, adjective, choic·er, choic·est.
noun
1.
an act or instance of choosing; selection: Her choice of a computer was made after months of research. His parents were not happy with his choice of friends.
2.
the right, power, or opportunity to choose; option: The child had no choice about going to school.
3.
the person or thing chosen or eligible to be chosen: This book is my choice. He is one of many choices for the award.
4.
an alternative: There is another choice.
5.
an abundance or variety from which to choose: a wide choice of candidates.
According to those definitions, I can write software that makes choices.
I.S.L.A.M617
Illuminatus
What's your point?
You said free will is the ability to make choices, so I asked what a choice was. You showed some definitions of a choice, to which I replied that I can write software that meets those basic definitions.
Would you say my software programs have free will?
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
We don't have 100% free will.
Its a combination of don't have a choice have a choice.
We aren't "gods".
Its a combination of don't have a choice have a choice.
We aren't "gods".
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
My free will is conditional on my enviroment and things beyond my control.Including I cant see the future and that sucks.
Skwim
Veteran Member
And even if we were, we still wouldn't have a free will.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Probably not cuz we cant control our subjects!
I speculate that free will must be involved when planning to become a universe, when the laws that bind us finally break down.
I liken free will to a feedback loop. A furnace and a thermostat work in tandem, supplying information to each other to create a regulated system: the furnace turns on when it's too cold, or off when it's too hot based on information from the thermostat; the thermostat, in turn, records information about the environment that the furnace has affected. There's no magic about it, yet the system provides an apparently controlled outcome that defies nature (ambient temperature).
Replace the furnace with your presently conscious mind and the thermostat with memory. Memory has recorded every bit of information about what the conscious mind has done; the conscious mind, in turn, relies on that information to act. It's when the conscious mind says, "Memory is present-me in the past, having already done something," that a feedback loop is set up--a system and an apparent outcome that defies nature. Where you might have said something aloud, you look to memory and adjust what present-me does. That is will, and it is free in the sense that it can defy nature.
Replace the furnace with your presently conscious mind and the thermostat with memory. Memory has recorded every bit of information about what the conscious mind has done; the conscious mind, in turn, relies on that information to act. It's when the conscious mind says, "Memory is present-me in the past, having already done something," that a feedback loop is set up--a system and an apparent outcome that defies nature. Where you might have said something aloud, you look to memory and adjust what present-me does. That is will, and it is free in the sense that it can defy nature.
In the same way the mechanistic description of information output and input, in which everything ought to be determined or else there wouldn't be a feedback loop, does. Without the furnace-thermostat feedback system, there would be only ambient temperature. Without the present me-past me feedback system, there would be only mindful action, without volition.
dust1n
Zindīq
But it doesn't. If I have a feedback loop set up, and an output does not match the output suggested by the feedback loop, then the feedback loop is an incorrect assessment of the phenomenon. This doesn't mean that the unintended output has defied nature.
First, I wouldn't call the surrounding environment "nature." Nature entails the object and it's environment and all possible objects and environments. This was my confusion about defying nature.
Secondly, there is no argument from me regarding your assessment of the feedback loop, even though such an assessment would require one to actually determine the feedback loop, making it a product of determination. Even if that weren't the case, how is description "free will" as opposed to just "will?"
I'm not following. Can you explain? When I referred to an outcome, I referred to that produced by the feedback loop. What is the output that "would not match"? What phenomenon is incorrectly assessed?
Edit: The outcome of the furnace system is a regulated temperature. The outcome of the "me" system is a volitive me impacting the world.
Will is free will. The issue of "freedom" revolves around predestination, and predestination is only possible with a destiny, and that requires volition.
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