Do you have to disprove other people's belief or non-belief?

[Spirit of Light]

Why does it seems like some people must defend their belief no matter what? Are they that unsure about their own belief?

Why does it seems like some people must do everything in their power to discredit or disprove other people's faith or belief? Are they so desperate to prove God can not exist because they themselves does not see any proof of God?

Are both groups wasting their time on proving to others that they are the one who are right?

 

[John53]

Why does it seems like some people must defend their belief no matter what? Are they that unsure about their own belief?

Why does it seems like some people must do everything in their power to discredit or disprove other people's faith or belief? Are they so desperate to prove God can not exist because they themselves does not see any proof of God?

Are both groups wasting their time on proving to others that they are the one who are right?

Human nature to want to be part of a group.

 

[sun rise]

The separative ego (nafs) wants to feel superior and by contrast label others as inferior so compares and contrasts the self's beliefs as better.

The wise no longer have that tendency.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The need to refute the beliefs of another relies upon how harmful that belief is. For a recent example we only need to look at the US election and those that believed the false narrative that the election was stolen. Extremists went so far as to attack the Capitol.

Another clear example are beliefs about vaccinations and the pandemic in general.

I

 

[exchemist]

Why does it seems like some people must defend their belief no matter what? Are they that unsure about their own belief?

Why does it seems like some people must do everything in their power to discredit or disprove other people's faith or belief? Are they so desperate to prove God can not exist because they themselves does not see any proof of God?

Are both groups wasting their time on proving to others that they are the one who are right?

Those that try to prove or disprove religious faith are fools. Religious faith is not amenable to proof or disproof.
But in truth very few people really are that foolish. The debates you see are nearly always expressions of what a person believes or disbelieves, and the reasons why, not what they can prove or disprove.

It seems to me fair to discuss one's reasons for belief or disbelief on a religious forum. It probably is a waste of time if they hope to convert people to their way of thinking on an internet forum. What it may do, however, is introduce to people new issues concerning their faith or lack of faith, that they had not thought about before. This may help them refine their ideas or adapt them. That can be valuable.

As for people who are unsure about their belief, that too is a very common situation for an intelligent person to find him or herself in. Questioning is a sign of an active mind.

 

[osgart]

I like to scrutinize my beliefs, and convictions. And I enjoy the diversity of opinions, beliefs and convictions so long as there are no negative effects on humanity stemming from any beliefs or convictions.

I'm amazed at the fact there are so many convictions people have that seem forever beyond their opposing sides' understanding.

I was originally amazed that a lot of my convictions had vehement opposition.

I come here in the spirit of trying to understand.

I realize that what is proven, or disproven to one doesn't often go for fact to other people.

I also realize that people get personally invested in their beliefs, opinions, and convictions.

I realize that there are so many people trying to conform others to particular ways of thinking.

I get sick and tired of ridicule, personal attacks, forceful opposition, and propaganda.

Disagreement is normal though. I think evidence should speak for itself, and naturally people are going to infer many different things from the same evidence.

I find it interesting to see how many religious, and non religious evangelists want so desperately to conform society.

Personally I find reality is not going to give me all the answers I would love to know. So I don't expect that anyone has all the answers either.

Anyone claiming to have ultimate explanations should draw a healthy skepticism, but oh well.

Agree to disagree and move forward is all I can say.

 

[F1fan]

Do you have to win the bike race if you register for it? Yes. Competition is enjoyable. Winning is awesome.

Debate is competitive. Fun. Sometimes too easy.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why does it seems like some people must defend their belief no matter what? Are they that unsure about their own belief?

Why does it seems like some people must do everything in their power to discredit or disprove other people's faith or belief? Are they so desperate to prove God can not exist because they themselves does not see any proof of God?

Are both groups wasting their time on proving to others that they are the one who are right?

No, I do not need or desire to disprove anyone's beliefs or non-beliefs, but plenty of people seem obsessed with disproving my beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you have to win the bike race if you register for it? Yes. Competition is enjoyable. Winning is awesome.

Debate is competitive. Fun. Sometimes too easy.

I never rode a bike the way you do, I only rode to get to work or for exercise.

I hate competition and I have no need to win a debate.

 

[Trailblazer]

I like to scrutinize my beliefs, and convictions. And I enjoy the diversity of opinions, beliefs and convictions so long as there are no negative effects on humanity stemming from any beliefs or convictions.

I'm amazed at the fact there are so many convictions people have that seem forever beyond their opposing sides' understanding.

I was originally amazed that a lot of my convictions had vehement opposition.

I come here in the spirit of trying to understand.

I realize that what is proven, or disproven to one doesn't often go for fact to other people.

I also realize that people get personally invested in their beliefs, opinions, and convictions.

I realize that there are so many people trying to conform others to particular ways of thinking.

I get sick and tired of ridicule, personal attacks, forceful opposition, and propaganda.

Disagreement is normal though. I think evidence should speak for itself, and naturally people are going to infer many different things from the same evidence.

I find it interesting to see how many religious, and non religious evangelists want so desperately to conform society.

Personally I find reality is not going to give me all the answers I would love to know. So I don't expect that anyone has all the answers either.

Anyone claiming to have ultimate explanations should draw a healthy skepticism, but oh well.

Agree to disagree and move forward is all I can say.

osgart, you are a man after my own heart. People like you are what makes this forum worthwhile.

 

[F1fan]

I never rode a bike the way you do, I only rode to get to work or for exercise.

I hate competition and I have no need to win a debate.

And you succeed very well at achieving what you don't need.

 

[osgart]

osgart, you are a man after my own heart. People like you are what makes this forum worthwhile.

Well you are certainly very kind Trailblazer!
Even though I don't believe as you do, I consider it a joy to talk with you. You make it nice to be here.

I'm not into debating because I don't feel it gets at the truth of anything and it seems the forum is set up for debate over discussion.

I would suggest that there be more thread categories for discussion between those who don't agree.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well you are certainly very kind Trailblazer!
Even though I don't believe as you do, I consider it a joy to talk with you. You make it nice to be here.

I'm not into debating because I don't feel it gets at the truth of anything and it seems the forum is set up for debate over discussion.

I would suggest that there be more thread categories for discussion between those who don't agree.

I also much prefer discussions to debates but it seems as if not that many people are interested in discussions and that is why I always post threads in the General Religious Debates, hoping for a discussion!

I used to like to debate but eventually a light went off in my head and I realized that debating to prove I am right is just ego. It was at that juncture when I lost all interest in proving that my religion is true. However, I still like to talk about my religion if people are interested in it because I do believe it is true and people should have the opportunity to know about it. Then they can decide for themselves if they believe it is true or not.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Why does it seems like some people must defend their belief no matter what? Are they that unsure about their own belief?

Why does it seems like some people must do everything in their power to discredit or disprove other people's faith or belief? Are they so desperate to prove God can not exist because they themselves does not see any proof of God?

Are both groups wasting their time on proving to others that they are the one who are right?

I don't see a need for it based merely on a difference in belief or between belief and lack of belief.

I understand the reasoning that atheists use to come to their conclusions. While recognizing that, I see no need to attack them for it and I appreciate their logic. But what they do not believe in has no impact on what I believe in or how I do it. I do not mind what others do believe either. I learn much from different views, perspectives and beliefs. This forum provides about as level a playing field that I think we will ever find for interactions between believers of all sorts and those that have no belief system at all.

What I respond to here and elsewhere are the claims that people make. For instance, I understand that many Christians believe that a flood covered the Earth several thousand years ago. While Christian, I don't believe that myself and see the story of Genesis as a metaphor. If a person chooses to believe it was an actual event, that itself doesn't bother me. But if a person starts making claims about it to justify action, then I do take issue and action of my own.

What is claimed publicly to elicit some form of response or action can be challenged regardless of which group or person makes the claim. Such claims, counter claims, and the use of logic, reason and evidence are part how we learn and come to understand the issues and those debating them.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

The need to refute the beliefs of another relies upon how harmful that belief is. For a recent example we only need to look at the US election and those that believed the false narrative that the election was stolen. Extremists went so far as to attack the Capitol.

Another clear example are beliefs about vaccinations and the pandemic in general.

I

I think we are on the same page. The harm I see is some of the action that people take based on belief or to forward their belief.

 

[osgart]

I also much prefer discussions to debates but it seems as if not that many people are interested in discussions and that is why I always post threads in the General Religious Debates, hoping for a discussion!

I used to like to debate but eventually a light went off n my head and I realized that debating to prove I am right is just ego. It was at that juncture when I lost all interest in proving that my religion is true. However, I still like to talk about my religion if people are interested in it because I do believe it is true and people should have the opportunity to know about it. Then they can decide for themselves if they believe it is true or not.

I often know that going into a debate thread people like to target religious people. But I do the same thing I always do and that is try to discuss in a debate thread. Will I ever learn?

I just thought it would be better to have way more discussion categories than debate categories. The debates are not formal and people don't define terms or familiarize themselves properly enough to have an interesting debate. Debates require study and planning, they require getting to know the opponent, and the subject as well.

I think with every thread that comes up there's a lot of kneejerk reactionaries, and others that just want to vent their hostilities, and frustrations.

 

[John53]

I think we are on the same page. The harm I see is some of the action that people take based on belief or to forward their belief.

That pretty much sums it up.

I don't care what someone believes as long as it causes no harm. I do care when someone claims bad things will happen to me unless I believe what they believe.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

That pretty much sums it up.

I don't care what someone believes as long as it causes no harm. I do care when someone claims bad things will happen to me unless I believe what they believe.

Therein lurks the problem. Some people always want others to believe as they do and will resort to any means to see that it happens that way. Even to the point of subverting the very reasons they claim for holding their personal views.

 

[Twilight Hue]

If a belief is ridiculous and arguably bonkers, it would be a disservice not to at least mention it and the reason or reasons why.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Do you have to disprove other people's belief or non-belief?":
No, unless they confront me with it. I have no problem with "I believe ...", I have problems with " ... (a book or person) says ...). I give two hoots for that.