Hiya SuperUniverse,
You said:
Now, ya
see, that's an interesting claim that quite a few believers attest as a knowable "truth". Of the first part, I would agree that "
This universe is a free will place...", but as to divine bestowments of charitable gifts (in this particular case, our species' innate capacities to
think and
reason)...I do
not ask that you provide
any "proofs" of this extraordinary claim...I only ask that you
reference or
source the
foundation of that assertive claim. Is there a record of this "transaction" between man and "god"? Is there some sort of written text that attests to (or documents) this foundational
truth? I do
not ask that you
prove your "god" exists, I only ask
why you
believe that your "god" has "gifted" mankind with free will? What do
you cite as
validation (or foundation) of that belief? Some accessible text, book, or anecdotal story? From
whom, or from
what insightful instrument were you instructed/revealed in accepting this "truth" to your subsequently unquestioning understanding? Does it have a title, a Dewey decimal classification, a website, or any named place/archive that skeptics and/or other wayward souls might hope to visit or read from for themselves? Or do you claim some unique and utterly inaccessible and personalized revelation of "god's truth" (like some especially "gifted" and extraordinary enlightenment that is your alone to "know" and fully appreciate)?
So much then for concepts of free will...
I'm reminded by the observation of one Mr. Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain), who said:
"Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world--and never will."
-- "Consistency" speech, essay
Interesting. I wonder if you might share then
your own perceived distinctions between the concepts of "
free inquiry", and "
free will"? Is reasonable doubt a "
choice", in and of itself; or is it an inexact inference that leaves free inquiry added room to explore and pursue avenues of ongoing discovery and "revelation"? What sort of divinely bestowed "free will" can be claimed as "absolute"...if
any realization that "
god might not exist" is to be deemed as categorically false, and beyond all human capacities of free inquiry or reasoned conclusion?
Oh churlish SuperUniverse...I wish to elevate matters of discourse for the benefit of
all...not to the confined and "absolute" perspectives of the few...
You remain unmindful, or purposefully deflecting in even offering such a rhetorical inquiry.
I indulged you with a most considered reply that readily surpassed a simple "yes" or "no" answer waaay back here in
post #733, within this thread.
Within that very post, I said then:
"It's reason that allows/permits disbelief of any specified claim. Any/all "gods" exist if there is but one claimant that insists that their alleged god(s) are "real". Do you "believe in" Zeus, Apollo, or Athena? Perhaps you "believe in" the claimed divinity of Demeter,Bhrama, Anuke or Baal? Maybe Enki, Ninhursag, or Ki, instead?
No?
What then is the reason you don't believe in those gods?
What reason do you employ that allows you to conclusively doubt insistent claims of fairies, or flying unicorns (or spaghetti monsters traveling aloft in the sky)?"
...and...
"The "reason" I don't believe in your god is because I doubt the legitimacy (or earnestly-lent "testimony") of the claim of it's/His existence. There is more "evidence" supporting a faith-based assertion/claim of Thor as a "god"...than other contemporary faith-based claims of either singular or multiple existent "gods". I can see lightning; I can hear thunder. Should I doubt the correlations of such cause/effect "explanations", or should I simply proclaim and insist that "Thor LIVES"?"
Ya see?
No evident
fear on my part in that specific reply...nor in any that have followed.
If I were fearful of your claimed "truths", I would have retired from this thread long ago.
I remain...of my own free will. ;-)
