Do you like to gamble?

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Yeah, that's pretty much false. Of course there are atheists in fox holes. Just because a theist would start to pray as a response to fear doesn't mean an atheist automatically does. It's just as pathetic as Pascal's Wager, and nothing more than theistic arrogance to assume there are no atheists in a foxhole. Is atheism so hard to accept that you have to insist it doesn't actually exist when push comes to shove?

Yaarp, if I find myself in a foxhole while bullets are whizzing past my ears, I want an atheist next to me - someone who will be thinking of the best way to make a tactical retreat, or a counter attack, not the man who wants to hold an impromptu prayer meeting.

 

[james bond]

What does anyone think about Pascal's wager?

More losers than winners. While an interesting philosophy, it does not fit with Christian thought

 

[james bond]

Yaarp, if I find myself in a foxhole while bullets are whizzing past my ears, I want an atheist next to me - someone who will be thinking of the best way to make a tactical retreat, or a counter attack, not the man who wants to hold an impromptu prayer meeting.

LMAO. There are no atheists in foxholes because they'll be the ones praying for their lives. It's unconscious behavior. Their life is all they have.

 

[Father Heathen]

The point of his wager was you don't know that.

You also don't know if god would or wouldn't toss you into hell for not practicing coprophagia, so bon appetit.

 

[Skwim]

More losers than winners. While an interesting philosophy, it does not fit with Christian thought

But I would bet that a decent number (say 5-10%) of Christians have adopted Christianity through just such a wager. Meaning therefore, that it does fit in with Christian thinking, albeit not appreciably so.

.

 

[D. Ellis Overttun]

You also don't know if god would or wouldn't toss you into hell for not practicing coprophagia, so bon appetit.

Exactly! The introduction of the uncertainty is the whole point. Although I probably wouldn't want to test that hypothesis. So, I would be safe either way.

 

[D. Ellis Overttun]

Surely God prefers authenticity?

Who knows?

 

[D. Ellis Overttun]

But I would bet that a decent number (say 5-10%) of Christians have adopted Christianity through just such a wager. Meaning therefore, that it does fit in with Christian thinking, albeit not appreciably so.

.

Not saying it fits in with Christian thinking. Just saying its not an unreasonable wager to take.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

LMAO. There are no atheists in foxholes because they'll be the ones praying for their lives. It's unconscious behavior. Their life is all they have.

There are quite a few atheists in foxholes, because they feel like the only life there is, is worth fighting for, instead of leaving it for something they don't believe in to fix.
Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers
Atheists In Foxholes - Freedom From Religion Foundation
What Is the Myth That There Are No Atheists in Foxholes?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I prefer what has colloquially been titled the atheist wager (and often misattributed to Marcus Aurelius):

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

 

[lewisnotmiller]

LMAO. There are no atheists in foxholes because they'll be the ones praying for their lives. It's unconscious behavior. Their life is all they have.

Rubbish. I'm an atheist and thrice been in violent situations I thought I might not live through, once almost correctly. I can assure you, no god crossed my mind.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Who knows?

It's part of the Wager, though. You're betting that God prefers someone to choose a religion in a cynical fashion, over simply being honest to themselves and others and living a good life.

 

[Father Heathen]

Exactly! The introduction of the uncertainty is the whole point. Although I probably wouldn't want to test that hypothesis. So, I would be safe either way.

How would you be safe if it turned out that coprophagia was the path to salvation, and because you didn't partake just to be on the safe side, you were now damned to hell? This is why Pascal's wager is completely and wholly worthless.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

LMAO. There are no atheists in foxholes because they'll be the ones praying for their lives. It's unconscious behavior. Their life is all they have.

Don't judge everyone by your own standards dude, some men (and women) enjoy the life of a warrior, don't assume everyone immediately starts crying for their mommie (or their deity) when bullets are flying. Battles are won by the side who does the most killing, I've never heard of a battle won by tactical praying.

 

[D. Ellis Overttun]

How would you be safe if it turned out that coprophagia was the path to salvation, and because you didn't partake just to be on the safe side, you were now damned to hell? This is why Pascal's wager is completely and wholly worthless.

Point taken. For me, the utility of Pascal's wager has always been on a secular level, something where you have a quantifiable loss/expenditure that is acceptable against a potential large upside (eg. a lottery ticket) or the avoidance of a large downside (eg. house burning down).

 

[D. Ellis Overttun]

It's part of the Wager, though. You're betting that God prefers someone to choose a religion in a cynical fashion, over simply being honest to themselves and others and living a good life.

It is not a bet about God's preferences. I am not choosing a religion. (I think all the wager talks about is whether or not God exists.) I also do not see it as cynical. It is about being mindful of downside risk. I can still be honest to myself and live a good life.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think your comment falls outside the parameters of the wager. I think the existence of God was always conditional in the wager (i.e. never proven).

The existence of god can't be conditional to the wager because it is saying that "just encase there is." And from the basis of the "wager," there is still much to be determined.

I don't know if his point was to try to prove if Christianity was right.

He is correct; Pascal was a Christian who tried to prove the existence of god.

Yaarp, if I find myself in a foxhole while bullets are whizzing past my ears, I want an atheist next to me - someone who will be thinking of the best way to make a tactical retreat, or a counter attack, not the man who wants to hold an impromptu prayer meeting.

Personally, I wouldn't give a damn about their religion, and I'd want someone who can stay calm, think and shoot straight, and focus on staying alive, and most of all because it is the military, someone who has my back.

Just saying its not an unreasonable wager to take.

It's basically nothing than "wishful afterlife insurance." If you get it, cool. If there's nothing, oh well. There is no faith or substance in that.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It is not a bet about God's preferences. I am not choosing a religion. (I think all the wager talks about is whether or not God exists.) I also do not see it as cynical. It is about being mindful of downside risk. I can still be honest to myself and live a good life.

You're betting that God is happier for you to pretend he exists than go with your honest belief on whether he exists. Otherwise the gambit is pointless.

 

[Milton Platt]

I would agree. However, the wager is essentially a hedge on a short position. I saw this hedge take effect as my father got older. It has not happened to me but I have a direct observation that I can point to.

So, are you saying that a deity would accept such a profession? Do you think the deity would not actually find it insulting at best?

 

[D. Ellis Overttun]

If by profession you mean a gambler or a trader, then yes I do. As for what a deity would think, I have no idea.