Do you pray the rosary?

[dawny0826]

I'm not Catholic and see absolutely nothing wrong with praying the rosary. I think both rosary and prayers are beautiful and believe that prayers are heard, when sincere.

 

[InChrist]

That's fundamentalist and elitist nonsense, with which the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Churches disagree. Why is meditating on God a bad thing? What makes it pagan? Yoga? Oh please! Pagan comes from the Latin word meaning "countrymen" (Italian "paisano"), that's all. Where does the bible say meditating on God is paganism? St. Paul? He was the worst example and representative of Christianity. Didn't the greatest saints and even specially chose people have other-worldy visions? St. Bernadette, Lúcia Santos, Jacinta and Francisco Marto, and a thousand others because they thought of God.

I believe the biblical scriptures show that God is a personal Being who loves us and desires relationship with each person and this relationship is established with anyone who comes to Him through Jesus Christ His Son and Savior of the world. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus 1 Tim. 2:5

So according to the scriptures anything else which is used as an attempt to approach or reach God, whether it is the rosary or some other technique or practice, is illegitimate, and places one in danger of being influenced by familiar spirits and doctrines of demons.

 

[Jainarayan]

I believe the biblical scriptures show that God is a personal Being who loves us and desires relationship with each person and this relationship is established with anyone who comes to Him through Jesus Christ His Son and Savior of the world. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus 1 Tim. 2:5

So according to the scriptures anything else which is used as an attempt to approach or reach God, whether it is the rosary or some other technique or practice, is illegitimate, and places one in danger of being influenced by familiar spirits and doctrines of demons.

It says For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus. That's all it says, nothing more. So by repeatedly chanting "Lord Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner" opens you up to influence by demons? I'm amazed at how much Christians read things into their scriptures that aren't there.

 

[InChrist]

It says For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus. That's all it says, nothing more. So by repeatedly chanting "Lord Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner" opens you up to influence by demons? I'm amazed at how much Christians read things into their scriptures that aren't there.

Yes, that is all that verse says. It does not say one must repeat any word, phrase, or even the name of Jesus over and over again to have spiritual contact, connection, closeness to God, or for spiritual growth. The scriptures reveal that all one must do to be saved is believe and trust in the finished work of Christ. He is the Good Shepherd who never leaves nor forsakes those who come to Him and belong to God. There is no need for using mystical techniques or practices. When words are repeated over and over the words lose their meaning and become only sounds. This can have a hypnotic effect where normal thought processes are blocked (this is actually encouraged in Eastern spiritual practices, which I am sure you know) making it possible to enter an altered state placing one in a position of vulnerability to demonic influence.

 

[Shiranui117]

It says For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus. That's all it says, nothing more. So by repeatedly chanting "Lord Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner" opens you up to influence by demons? I'm amazed at how much Christians read things into their scriptures that aren't there.

I will say that there IS a danger of being misled by demons in any form of prayer--this especially goes for the Jesus Prayer. It's all too easy to fall into delusion, and the Jesus Prayer is only meant to be rigorously practiced by those who are well-grounded in the life of the Church, receiving the Sacraments and being under the guidance of a parish priest or spiritual father. InChrist IS correct about the dangers of such a prayer, even if he does ignore its overwhelming benefits to our spiritual lives.

Yes, that is all that verse says. It does not say one must repeat any word, phrase, or even the name of Jesus over and over again to have spiritual contact, connection, closeness to God, or for spiritual growth. The scriptures reveal that all one must do to be saved is believe and trust in the finished work of Christ. He is the Good Shepherd who never leaves nor forsakes those who come to Him and belong to God. There is no need for using mystical techniques or practices.

You are right that there is no NEED for mystical techniques or practices, and you are right in saying that we do not have to repeat any one prayer to be saved.

When words are repeated over and over the words lose their meaning and become only sounds.

Would you mind telling that to the blind beggars who incessantly shouted, "O Son of David, have mercy on us!"

This can have a hypnotic effect where normal thought processes are blocked (this is actually encouraged in Eastern spiritual practices, which I am sure you know) making it possible to enter an altered state placing one in a position of vulnerability to demonic influence.

Altered states are indeed to be avoided. One of the biggest focii of Christian prayer is vigilance, which is watching one's own soul and mind to make sure that they do not stray, continually bringing it back to attentiveness to God. While praying the Jesus Prayer, or any other kind of prayer, one should always watch the gates of his heart to make sure that no temptations or demons can enter.

The following is from the Philokalia, a compilation of the experience and wisdom of many Christians throughout the ages, Christians who have devoted their entire lives to prayer and the pursuit of virtues, as taught by both the Bible and by our Lord Jesus Christ:

If you find yourself hating your fellow men and resist this hatred, and you see that it grows weak and withdraws, do not rejoice in your heart; for this withdrawal is a trick of the evil spirits. They are preparing a second attack worse than the first; they have left their troops behind the city and ordered them to remain there. If you go out to attack them, they will flee before you in weakness. But if your heart is then elated because you have driven them away, and you leave the city, some of them will attack you from the rear while the rest will stand their ground in front of you; and your wretched soul will be caught between them with no means of escape. The city is prayer. Resistance is rebuttal through Christ Jesus. The foundation is incensive power.

Let us stand firm in the fear of God, rigorously practicing the virtues and not giving our conscience cause to stumble. In the fear of God let us keep our attention fixed within ourselves, until our conscience achieves its freedom. Then there will be a union between it and us, and thereafter it will be our guardian, showing us each thing that we must uproot. But if we do not obey our conscience, it will abandon us and we shall fall into the hands of our enemies, who will never let us go. This is what our Lord taught us when He said: 'Come to an agreement with your adversary quickly while you are with him in the road, lest he hand you over to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer and you are cast into prison (Matt. 5:25). The conscience is called an 'adversary' because it opposes us when we wish to carry out the desires of our flesh; and if we do not listen to our conscience, it delivers us into the hands of our enemies.

4. If God sees that the intellect has entirely submitted to Him and puts its hope in Him alone. He strengthens it,saying: 'Have no fear Jacob my son, my little Israel" (Isa. 41:14. LXX), and: 'Have no fear: for I have delivered you, I have called you by My name; you are Mine. If you pass through water, I shall be with you, and the rivers will not drown you. If you go through fire, you will not be burnt, and the names will not consume you. For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, who saves you' (cf . Isa. 43:1-3. LXX).
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Source

So yes, while there is a danger of entering into an "altered state" through prayer, this is not at all the intent or purpose, and such is a sure sign of the fact that you're doing it wrong. The point of the Jesus Prayer is exemplified in the words of Psalm 46:10--"Be still, and know that I am God." We are to be completely aware of ourselves--and more importantly, of God--at all times; if we start to notice that the words of the prayer are losing their meaning, we redouble our sincerity in our prayer to God; St. Paul DID say to "pray without ceasing" in 1 Thessalonians 5:17. You are right that there is a danger of the words of the prayer simply becoming white noise. But that cannot be allowed to happen; that is indifference setting in, and it's an obstacle in our spiritual journey to be overcome, just the same as any other passion or sin. We must continually recollect our scattered thoughts and bring them before God, focusing completely on Him.

Also, by meditating (which is a word used throughout the Psalms, BTW) on the words of the Jesus Prayer, the entire Gospel is contained in that one short prayer: Jesus' true humanity and true Divinity, the mystery of the Trinity, our broken nature, the power of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit to redeem us, the idea that we should view ourselves as being the chief among sinners and unworthy of passing judgement on our brother... The list goes on. I might even make a topic elaborating on the Jesus Prayer...

 

[Jainarayan]

I just find this all untenable, that when opening yourself to receiving God he would let you be at risk for demonic attack. Of course, I am biased because I do not believe in demons or the devil, or that God would allow anything to harm me while I am calling his name. The name of God and God are one and the same. In our beliefs God is especially pleased when we chant or recite his name over and over. But to each his own.

 

[InChrist]

I just find this all untenable, that when opening yourself to receiving God he would let you be at risk for demonic attack. Of course, I am biased because I do not believe in demons or the devil, or that God would allow anything to harm me while I am calling his name. The name of God and God are one and the same. In our beliefs God is especially pleased when we chant or recite his name over and over. But to each his own.

The God of the Bible who claims to be the true Creator God has provided a specific way for sinful humanity to come into His presence or reach Him and that is by repentance for one's sins, forgiveness, and being made right through Jesus Christ. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me (John 14:6). Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”Acts 4:12

You may not believe this as you do not believe in demons, but if there is One true God and you are not calling on this God in the way he has provided then according to the biblical scriptures you are calling out to a false god or gods which are in reality demonically inspired. Because the Creator does not want to see people harmed by malevolent spirits there is ample warning in the scriptures, but if one rejects the true God in favor of the false they have placed themselves outside of God's protection.

 

[Jainarayan]

but if there is One true God and you are not calling on this God in the way he has provided then according to the biblical scriptures you are calling out to a false god or gods which are in reality demonically inspired.

I might say the same to you, that you have an incorrect view of God. You can't use the bible to prove itself. There are no false gods, because there is only one God, known by many names. I've been in some tough spots, and God has come to my rescue. So I must be worshipping God properly.

"Whosoever worship Me through whatsoever path, I verily accept and bless them in that way. Men everywhere follow My path."

 

[InChrist]

Would you mind telling that to the blind beggars who incessantly shouted, "O Son of David, have mercy on us!"

I appreciate much of what you have said in your previous post. The only comment I have for now is that the blind beggars who incessantly shouted, "O Son of David, have mercy on us!" were spoken directly to the real Person of Christ with a real reason. They were not alone by themselves simply saying words again and again as if the practice of repeating the words would have some spiritual impact or power in their lives.

 

[InChrist]

I might say the same to you, that you have an incorrect view of God. You can't use the bible to prove itself. There are no false gods, because there is only one God, known by many names. I've been in some tough spots, and God has come to my rescue. So I must be worshipping God properly.

"Whosoever worship Me through whatsoever path, I verily accept and bless them in that way. Men everywhere follow My path."

You can say that to me and I respect your right to do so. But since this is the Christian DIR I don't feel I need to prove the Bible or the truths I believe it teaches. I'm just saying what the scriptures reveal and I believe this revelation and the warnings given are for our protection.

It may be that the true God has His hand of protection on you because at some point He knows you will realize your need for Him and deliverance from the dangers you are involved in and you will call out for Him. I saw this in my own life. Or it may be that what appears to be God's help in tough spots are really just the power of demons to deceive you until they have you completely under their control. Time will tell.

 

[Amechania]

I've used a string of beads before, and on my knees, and I remember shouting something like "Mother of God!," but, no, never actually prayed the Rosary.

 

[Shiranui117]

I appreciate much of what you have said in your previous post. The only comment I have for now is that the blind beggars who incessantly shouted, "O Son of David, have mercy on us!" were spoken directly to the real Person of Christ with a real reason. They were not alone by themselves simply saying words again and again as if the practice of repeating the words would have some spiritual impact or power in their lives.

When you get the time to comment on the rest of my post, or when you think of something further to say regarding it, feel free.

I'll note here that, when praying the Jesus Prayer--Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have mercy on me, a sinner(or THE sinner!)-- the one praying it is also speaking "directly to the real Person of Christ with a real reason."

You are correct that emptily saying the words and going through the motions of saying the Jesus Prayer--or going through the motions in any other part of Christian living for that matter--doesn't help us. The prayer does have to be sincere, and we do have to mean what we pray, otherwise it's not a "prayer" at all! So we're not just rattling off the Jesus Prayer (or to stay on topic, the prayers and meditations of the Rosary) but are truly focusing on the prayers, putting meaning and thought into each and every word. The Jesus Prayer is a true, heartfelt prayer addressing our Lord, God and Savior as if He were right in front of us--and indeed He is right in front of us--begging Him for His grace and mercy. It is truly speaking to the real Person of Christ with a real reason, not just a bunch of empty words. And this beseeching of Christ's mercy, this communication with and turning to Him, is how we obtain grace; "ask and it shall be given."

 

[Jainarayan]

... snip ...

This conversation is non-productive. Comments removed by me.

 

[InChrist]

This conversation is non-productive. Comments removed by me.

I appreciate you conversing with me as long as you did. Thank you, Jainarayan.

 

[InChrist]

When you get the time to comment on the rest of my post, or when you think of something further to say regarding it, feel free.

I'll note here that, when praying the Jesus Prayer--Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have mercy on me, a sinner(or THE sinner!)-- the one praying it is also speaking "directly to the real Person of Christ with a real reason."

You are correct that emptily saying the words and going through the motions of saying the Jesus Prayer--or going through the motions in any other part of Christian living for that matter--doesn't help us. The prayer does have to be sincere, and we do have to mean what we pray, otherwise it's not a "prayer" at all! So we're not just rattling off the Jesus Prayer (or to stay on topic, the prayers and meditations of the Rosary) but are truly focusing on the prayers, putting meaning and thought into each and every word. The Jesus Prayer is a true, heartfelt prayer addressing our Lord, God and Savior as if He were right in front of us--and indeed He is right in front of us--begging Him for His grace and mercy. It is truly speaking to the real Person of Christ with a real reason, not just a bunch of empty words. And this beseeching of Christ's mercy, this communication with and turning to Him, is how we obtain grace; "ask and it shall be given."

I don't see anything wrong with saying heartfelt prayers and I do agree that prayers should be sincere. What I see as a problem is saying the same prayer over and over again at one time because I believe then it can't be helped that the words become only hypnotic sounds losing their meaning. As far as the rosary is concerned, I, in good conscious, could not pray "Hail Mary" even once since Christ is the only mediator.

I prefer to pray in my own words rather than pre-written prayers. I have concerns about repeatedly praying something like the "Jesus prayer"...Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Maybe it would be fine to pray a prayer like this initially when seeking forgiveness and salvation from Jesus Christ, but after that the scriptures indicate that believers do not need to beg for mercy...For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Hebrews 4:15-17. And...If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness 1 John 1:9. So it seems more in line with the scriptures for believers to pray in their own words specifically related to their own concerns, needs, thanksgiving, praises, and personal confession of sins rather than the same rote prayer again and again.