Do you pray?

[Nick Soapdish]

Do you pray? If not in some deliberate manner, do you ever say to yourself "don't let me fall", "why me", or "please don't let this be true"? If so, who are you talking to?

I believe we all have an intuition about God, even if our intellect attempts to supress it. We know the world is a certain, particular way, and that it could have been different. This is the key point. I could have won the lottery, or been hit by a car. The world is a particular way, and not some other way.

If we were to consider the Universe to be unintelligent and indifferent, then we should expect everything to be absolute and universal. For example, the laws of physics seem to be absolute and universal. They operate the same no matter what and without any intelligence. However, the configuration of matter and energy that came to being is specific. This particular configuration has developed into what our current particular Universe is.

How could one particularity gain some kind of cosmic importance that makes it real vs another particularity? How did particularity come about without intention, preference or selection?

I believe this is our intuition behind spontaneous prayer... that we are in a particular situation that didn't have to be, but rather happened to be because of the selected circumstance. And it is natural for us to call out to whatever caused this particularity.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

atofel-

I think it would be more accurate to say that it's natural for us to anthropomorphize inhuman or inanimate forces or objects. I might mutter to myself "please don't tell me I forgot my notebook..." but that doesn't mean I have suppressed knowledge that the powers that the powers that be can hear me and respond to me. Nor do I think my computer understands me when I say "oh come on, load the friggin' page!"

If we were to consider the Universe to be unintelligent and indifferent, then we should expect everything to be absolute and universal.

I don't follow the logic here. I don't see why an unintelligent or indifferent universe couldn't be chaotic rather than absolute and universal.

How could one particularity gain some kind of cosmic importance that makes it real vs another particularity? How did particularity come about without intention, preference or selection?

So, for example, how is it that the mass of an electron has one value, and not another? I don't know, that's just the way things are. This problem isn't solved by passing the question on to unevidenced entities (e.g. why are there four gods, rather than three, and why is their nature this way, and not different?)

 

[Jaymes]

I don't pray, but I do do the 'don't let me fall' 'why me' etc stuff in my head at times. Why? Same reason I say anything else to myself: Because I'm talking to myself. If it's anything beyond that, it's a remnant of habits leftover from when I did pray. I'm not talking to anyone or thing in particular, it's just the way I'm used to expressing fear or displeasure.

 

[Nick Soapdish]

I don't follow the logic here. I don't see why an unintelligent or indifferent universe couldn't be chaotic rather than absolute and universal.

Chaos is a discription of great complexity. It means something is so complex, we can't effectively untangle it. However, at the granular-level, it does not suggest things do not operate according to some absolute mechanism.

Particularity is something different. It means it is one way instead of another. So how did particularity originate without a selective force?

So, for example, how is it that the mass of an electron has one value, and not another? I don't know, that's just the way things are. This problem isn't solved by passing the question on to unevidenced entities (e.g. why are there four gods, rather than three, and why is their nature this way, and not different?)

I do not think God is a particularity, but rather an absolute. He is an infinite being that is opposite to nothingness. He is the origin and author of all particulars.

 

[s2a]

Do you pray? If not in some deliberate manner, do you ever say to yourself "don't let me fall", "why me", or "please don't let this be true"? If so, who are you talking to?

Have I ever indulged a wishful thought? Sure.

Does wishful thinking equate to prayer to some divine entity? I would suppose that depends upon an individual's belief in the prospect of some deus ex machina to save the day. I retain no such belief, yet I'm an optomist. Go figure.

I believe we all have an intuition about God, even if our intellect attempts to supress it. We know the world is a certain, particular way, and that it could have been different. This is the key point. I could have won the lottery, or been hit by a car. The world is a particular way, and not some other way.

Is your name Earl? ;-)

Sounds more like Karma than any "divine purpose" to me. Your "key point" infers some element of (divine?) "reward/punishment" to existence, vs. mere "cause/effect" outcomes.

If we were to consider the Universe to be unintelligent and indifferent, then we should expect everything to be absolute and universal. For example, the laws of physics seem to be absolute and universal. They operate the same no matter what and without any intelligence. However, the configuration of matter and energy that came to being is specific. This particular configuration has developed into what our current particular Universe is.

The cosmos is what it is. Laws of physics have no interest in expressing a specificity of "purpose". It seems that some folks feel a compelling need to assign "purpose" to the cosmos (or to accept some ascribed purpose as dictated by religious belief).

How could one particularity gain some kind of cosmic importance that makes it real vs another particularity? How did particularity come about without intention, preference or selection?

Well, we know that our species certainly reflects such traits in eventual determination of causal outcomes (date the homely gals, then marry the pretty one).

But what is, particularly..."cosmic importance"? Could you provide an example of something that is cosmically "important"? In so doing, please elaborate by what means or measure is this "importance" determined, and to whom is it important, and why?

I find no compelling evidence within the broader cosmos that suggests any purposeful humanistic traits associated with consequenced (or particular) cause/effect outcomes. When I gaze through my telescope and observe two enormous galaxies crashing into one another, it's humbling to contemplate just how many billions of stars and planets are being ripped into cosmic dust in the ensuing process, and casually ponder how many long-lived civilizations of intelligent species are being inexorably expunged, and metaphorically snuffed out like a candle. Do I perceive any purposed "intention, preference or selection" in observance of such cosmological phenomena? Is the Milky Way "spared" or "rewarded", while other galaxies are fatefully "doomed" or "punished" in some way?
Not from this end of the telescope...

No reward. No punishment. Just consequence.

I believe this is our intuition behind spontaneous prayer... that we are in a particular situation that didn't have to be, but rather happened to be because of the selected circumstance. And it is natural for us to call out to whatever caused this particularity.

While I would most readily concede and concur that "human nature" (being "natural") seeks to assign blame/rationale for regrettable/unfortunate choices/circumstances...it's irrational to hope for or against consquences beyond your influence or available choices. Neither wishful thinking nor prayer will deflect a comet on an inevitable collision course with our little blue ball. Some may ascribe such an impending fate as divine punishment or just "bad luck", but the reality is, the cosmos doesn't care about our insignificant spec of dust within the virtually limitless beach of the universe. It's ego and vanity alone that insist that our world has especial significance or importance in the continuing course of an "unfeeling" cosmos, or that you or I have any input in altering that course (by any means) in any significant way...

La merde se produit. That's all.

[Note: I have often observed that nothing else fails as miserably, consistently, and demonstrably as prayer - just like...wishful thinking alone. Odd that thousands (millions?) of people no doubt prayed that Katrina would alter it's inevitable course, and spare them their lives and property. Yet, Katrina came...and devastated a huge region of the Gulf Coast, killing more than a thousand people (of those, it's impossible to determine how many engaged veritably "unsuccessful" prayer beforehand). Ironically enough, Katrina didn't kill anyone that actually got out of her way. Divine intervention, or simple cause/effect? Hmmmm.]

 

[Malus 12:9]

Not at all. I figured if God is not interested in me, why should I ask him for prayer answering?

 

[Ori]

I used too, but I gave up, I get more of a reaction from a wall.

Though if it works for yopu guys, i'm happy for you.

 

[glasgowchick]

Not at all. I figured if God is not interested in me, why should I ask him for prayer answering?

God Loves you malus, he loves you, me and everyone out there. God doesn't have favorites, He want to have a friendship with all of us, it is us who turn our back on Him...Sometimes I wonder how God could possibly love someone like me, but I know he does with all my faults... :bounce

 

[glasgowchick]

I used too, but I gave up, I get more of a reaction from a wall.

Though if it works for yopu guys, i'm happy for you.

Hi, I believe it is through our prayers that God teaches us patience, I also believe that if our prayers are for selfish motives and not according to Gods will then they might not be answered and sometimes God does say no..God also might answer prayers to the way He see fit, but if we truly look then that prayer has probably been answered..

 

[s2a]

Chaos is a discription of great complexity. It means something is so complex, we can't effectively untangle it. However, at the granular-level, it does not suggest things do not operate according to some absolute mechanism.

Particularity is something different. It means it is one way instead of another. So how did particularity originate without a selective force?

I do not think God is a particularity, but rather an absolute. He is an infinite being that is opposite to nothingness. He is the origin and author of all particulars.

Hmmmm. You seem to have access to some unique reference works...to wit:

Defined: Chaos

Defined: Particularity


and so...


Defined: Mischaracterize

and...

"Rationalize" v.-

"To devise self-satisfying but false or inconsistent reasons for one's behavior, especially as an unconscious defense mechanism through which irrational acts or feelings are made to appear rational to oneself."
Source: The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary

"defend, explain, clear away, or make excuses for by reasoning"
Source:WordNet ® 2.0

 

[robtex]

The last time I kneeled and prayed I was about 12 I think. My mom was having some personal problems and I was going to a methodist church at the time so I took out a prayer book the church gave me wrote down what I was asking for and asked Jesus to look after my mom. I can still remember what the book looked like but I haven't seen it in two decades.

As for mini prayers I use to ask God to look after the dead animals on the side of the road until about say, 5 years ago? Maybe longer?

I don't have the talent of talking to inanimate objects. I talk to myself and when someone catches me I ask them not to interupt me when I am talking to myself.

Atofel, the acid test on your originial question is the "entity" you are talking to verbally answers you back you are "talking to someone" as opposed to "talking at something" . You get a verbal reply that is a converstation you don't you are practicing your monologue skills.

 

[Engyo]

As a Buddhist I pray regularly; but prayer in Buddhism is directing positive energy generated by my practice towards those things I choose to pray about. I am praying "from" my practice, rather than "to" some outside entity who can choose to grant the prayer or not. The choice of whether or not to pray, and the choice of focus is mine, as is the energy or merit I direct through my prayer.

 

[Radar]

I talk to myself quite often, I can't think of anyone better to have a conversation with.

 

[michel]

I pray very regularly; goodness knows how often. The only time I ask for God's help is for someone other than me; somehow, to me, it feels like an abuse to ask God for something for me.


I know what you mean though, Atofel; I bet the most ardent Atheist has let slip a "Thank God I caught you in time....." before now.

 

[Green Gaia]

As a Buddhist I pray regularly; but prayer in Buddhism is directing positive energy generated by my practice towards those things I choose to pray about. I am praying "from" my practice, rather than "to" some outside entity who can choose to grant the prayer or not. The choice of whether or not to pray, and the choice of focus is mine, as is the energy or merit I direct through my prayer.

I love that.

 

[Melody]

Do you pray? If not in some deliberate manner, do you ever say to yourself "don't let me fall", "why me", or "please don't let this be true"? If so, who are you talking to?

Yes, I do pray and I'm praying to my creator. I don't say "Thank God". I say "Thank you God." It's not an afterthought but rather a recognition and appreciation of His presence in my life.

I believe this is our intuition behind spontaneous prayer... that we are in a particular situation that didn't have to be, but rather happened to be because of the selected circumstance. And it is natural for us to call out to whatever caused this particularity.

I suppose this might be true if this is the only time you pray, in which case I would hesitate to call it prayer. Used in this manner, it more closely resembles just another expletive/exclamation/etc. (depending on how you're using it).

 

[Aqualung]

I pray. I say a prayer in the mornings (if I remember. That's kind of a new habit I'm working on) and in the evenings before bed. I also pray before I read scriptures, and sometimes I'll pray if something strikes me (like I see a particularly beautiful sunset, or if somebody tells me their mom is sick or something).

 

[painted wolf]

yup I pray... I pray when I sing at the drum, or dance the circle, I try to remember to before meals to thank the plants and animals that gave thier lives to keep mine going. I pray when I see or experience something that makes me thankful (beautiful sunset etc). I pray when I need guidance I try to remember to pray at the end of the day to sum up all the good things that happined, I try to remember to pray when I get up to express thankfullness for making it through the night. I pray to seek aid for friends and relitives who are in need....
I tend to pray quite a bit.
But my prayers arn't the long drawn out, on bended knee, affairs... most are quick and rather informal. We don't have to hold a particular stance, we don't have to be 'humble' as we are celebrating our connection with creator and humility is more than a bowed head.

wa:do

 

[robtex]

As a Buddhist I pray regularly; but prayer in Buddhism is directing positive energy generated by my practice towards those things I choose to pray about. I am praying "from" my practice, rather than "to" some outside entity who can choose to grant the prayer or not. The choice of whether or not to pray, and the choice of focus is mine, as is the energy or merit I direct through my prayer.

I love the way buddhists assume full responsiblty for their interaction in the world they live in instead of deffering much of it. Great post.

 

[Melody]

But my prayers arn't the long drawn out, on bended knee, affairs... most are quick and rather informal. We don't have to hold a particular stance, we don't have to be 'humble' as we are celebrating our connection with creator and humility is more than a bowed head.

wa:do

I've never been much into ritual and it never felt comfortable to me. I remember watching a program years ago that showed Hassidic Jews praying at the Wall and they were rocking back and forth. I thought...weird, but whatever. Same for muslims with the kneeling, standing, bending, etc. I had the same problem with catholicism as a young person. Never could get the reason for the up, down, up down. Until recently my prayers were usually lying in bed or curled up in a chair. I still do that but....

In the last year, I've felt almost as if I've been treating God too casually. That perhaps I'm not showing him the deference and respect that He is due. Since He knows what is in my heart, I think it's just *my* need. That the physical "attitude" is just the connection to the mental. You can prostrate yourself before God mentally, but the physical action adds emphasis. But then that's just me.