Do you see God here?

[Justanatheist]

The Messenger of God reflects the attributes of God in His person because He has Godlike attributes.
The Messenger of God also reveals the attributes of God and the Will of God in His Writings.

I know He is a Messenger of God from looking at the evidence.

Everyone does not recognize the Messenger of God because we all look at evidence with different eyes.

Lets say I have four people in front of me, Jesus, Joseph Smith, Charles Manson and David Koresh, how do I tell which if any are a messenger from god?

 

[RestlessSoul]

Lets say I have four people in front of me, Jesus, Joseph Smith, Charles Manson and David Koresh, how do I tell which if any are a messenger from god?

You could probably rule out the last two pretty quickly imo.

 

[Justanatheist]

You could probably rule out the last two pretty quickly imo.

How? I know it appears obvious at first sight, but when you think about it, how do we so quickly rule out the last two?

 

[Moonjuice]

Faith, like life itself, is a gift; and where there is a gift, there has to be a giver, says I.

The guys who flew those planes into the twin towers had unquestionable faith. Stronger than most. What a gift the gift giver gave these guys!

 

[Spirit of Light]

How? I know it appears obvious at first sight, but when you think about it, how do we so quickly rule out the last two?

Often you can get a very good sense of who can be a prophet, or a messenger from God by how they speak, act and think according to the teaching they giving.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I've seen "How Big is the Universe" type videos before, but nothing like this. It's really amazing! I'd encourage everyone to take 10 minutes and check it out.

When watching this video, I can help but to think about how small and insignificant we are. I wonder what that little blue dot, suspended in the sunbeam will be like in 1,000 years? Will people still think that some sort of all powerful creator cares about what food they eat here on this tiny speck of dust? Or who they have sex with? Will people still get convinced that their god is going to allow them to live forever in an invisible paradise that is outside of space and time, after they die? That our existence is part of some strange game where rewards and punishments are given out after dying? Seems unlikely to me.

I've seen the same type of video used by theists to show how incredible God is and how this could not be an accidental world. All depends on your perspective, I guess. I personally can not understand how anyone can watch this and not see God.

 

[Justanatheist]

Often you can get a very good sense of who can be a prophet, or a messenger from God by how they speak, act and think according to the teaching they giving.

Is that not just your sense of confirmation bias, if the message fits with your expectations of what you god would say you accept it, if it contravenes what you think your god would say you reject it? Are you not second guessing your god?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Is that not just your sense of confirmation bias, if the message fits with your expectations of what you god would say you accept it, if it contravenes what you think your god would say you reject it? Are you not second guessing your god?

I do have my own understanding of the teaching i follow, that is true, but differently from many others, i do not see a reason to reject other people to have their understanding of what a messenger or a prophet is. My understanding may even be wrong since i am far from the end of the spiritual path. There is a lot more i have to understand.

So if someone feel it is bias that i speak about, i accept that it is their view or opinion.

 

[RestlessSoul]

How? I know it appears obvious at first sight, but when you think about it, how do we so quickly rule out the last two?

The body count kind of gives it away.

You may of course, point to Christianity’s body count, but that didn’t happen on Jesus’ watch.

Manson must have had some charisma though tbf. And of course, he never bloodied his own hands, others did the dirty work for him. So maybe the devil too, has his messengers.

 

[RestlessSoul]

The guys who flew those planes into the twin towers had unquestionable faith. Stronger than most. What a gift the gift giver gave these guys!

Ye shall know them by their fruits.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

 

[firedragon]

I've seen "How Big is the Universe" type videos before, but nothing like this. It's really amazing! I'd encourage everyone to take 10 minutes and check it out.

When watching this video, I can help but to think about how small and insignificant we are. I wonder what that little blue dot, suspended in the sunbeam will be like in 1,000 years? Will people still think that some sort of all powerful creator cares about what food they eat here on this tiny speck of dust? Or who they have sex with? Will people still get convinced that their god is going to allow them to live forever in an invisible paradise that is outside of space and time, after they die? That our existence is part of some strange game where rewards and punishments are given out after dying? Seems unlikely to me.

You should know that the concept of God, even if you believe it or not, is bigger, which means it addresses the inception of the universe, to the fingertip of a human being.

Even if you dont believe in a theology or God itself, try and understand the concept of God.

Lets say even if you try and get into the Hindu concept of God, even if the universe is 10^10^100 times the size of the earth, it is all still God himself. Dont believe in this concept, but understand it. Everything is God. So of course, in that concept, if you pinch a baby on earth, God will feel it because this baby is also a manifestation of God himself. Even the tree, or a stone.

Even if you think of someone like Anselm a 1000 years ago, even if you dont believe it, understand it.

 

[Justanatheist]

The body count kind of gives it away.

You may of course, point to Christianity’s body count, but that didn’t happen on Jesus’ watch.

Manson must have had some charisma though tbf. And of course, he never bloodied his own hands, others did the dirty work for him. So maybe the devil too, has his messengers.

I thought christian theology said Jesus was God right from the beginning, so it was always his watch.
My point is that if people are going to claim that messengers reveal gods word and he is not hidden, then surely we must have a way to know who these messengers are. No one appears to be able to explain what process I, as an unbeliever use to differentiate between the charlatan and the real thing. Maybe god was in a particularly bad mood when he made Manson his messenger?

 

[Justanatheist]

Ye shall know them by their fruits.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Which is probably exactly what those people flying the planes into the towers thought, frightening is it not?

 

[RestlessSoul]

Which is probably exactly what those people flying the planes into the towers thought, frightening is it not?

I have no idea what they thought; but they certainly had courage. And faith in something.

But I don’t think any great stretch of the imagination is needed for us to conclude that these qualities were misdirected.

 

[Moonjuice]

Ye shall know them by their fruits.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Well, I don't know about fruit trees or what evil fruit looks like, but I do know that faith can and does lead people to do some really horrible things to each other. History is littered with examples and its happening right now as we speak. I don't see faith as a gift at all - faith is inserted to close the gap between what we do know and what people hope is true about their own version of god. So unless you have the right god, your faith could cause you to waste your entire life. The only life we know for sure we have. What a shame.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I thought christian theology said Jesus was God right from the beginning, so it was always his watch.
My point is that if people are going to claim that messengers reveal gods word and he is not hidden, then surely we must have a way to know who these messengers are. No one appears to be able to explain what process I, as an unbeliever use to differentiate between the charlatan and the real thing. Maybe god was in a particularly bad mood when he made Manson his messenger?

Why do you need to have these things explained to you? If you can’t work out for yourself the difference between Jesus and Charles Manson, I’m not sure anyone can help you.

 

[Justanatheist]

I have no idea what they thought; but they certainly had courage. And faith in something.

I do not think they had courage they truely believed they were going to a better place, now an atheist suicide bomber really means it!

But I don’t think any great stretch of the imagination is needed for us to conclude that these qualities were misdirected.

Yes, we do, but a believer would not conclude that.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I do not think they had courage they truely believed they were going to a better place, now an atheist suicide bomber really means it!



Yes, we do, but a believer would not conclude that.

Hm. You seem quite certain about what you think goes on inside the minds of others. How did you acquire these insights?

 

[Justanatheist]

Why do you need to have these things explained to you? If you can’t work out for yourself the difference between Jesus and Charles Manson, I’m not sure anyone can help you.

No I cannot work out the difference between Jesus and Manson in relation to whether they are messengers from god, if you cannot explain why you can then you cannot help me.

 

[Justanatheist]

Hm. You seem quite certain about what you think goes on inside the minds of others. How did you acquire these insights?

They tell us, ever watched the videos of suicide bombers, I think that someone who shouts Allah Akba whilst detonating himself is giving us a big insight into what they are thinking.