Do you think Pope is wise in making this statement even in quote?

[greatcalgarian]

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/15/pope.islam/index.html

A transcript of the pope's remarks obtained by The Associated Press television network reads: "In the seventh (sura, or chapter of the Quran), the emperor comes to speak about jihad, holy war.
"The emperor certainly knew that Sura 2, 256, reads: 'No force in matters of faith'. It is one of the early suras, from a time -- as experts say -- in which Mohammed himself was still powerless and threatened.
"However, the emperor of course also knew the requirements about the holy war that were later formulated in the Quran. Without going into details like the handling of the owners of the scriptures, or non-believers, he (the emperor) turned to his interlocutors -- in a surprisingly brusque way -- with the central question after the relationship between religion and violence.
"He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'"

As the spiritual leader of one of the world's major religions, he should really be very careful to bring the quote from the 14th century emperor to illustrate his point of view.
Either he is dumb, or he did it on purpose to create a diversion for the political situation of the world currently being bogged down by GB war of terror, which has been interpreted by most people now as "war on Islam". The the Pope would like to drag the millions and billions of Catholics into this muddy water...... sad:sad4:
It reminds me of the cartoon episode....

 

[kiwimac]

He is, I firmly believe, several planes short of a Jasta!

 

[sindbad5]

if you asked me about my opinion, i'll tell you that there's a war on islam.
i consider myself - if i use the westeren terms - a moderate muslim, i oppose the extremists ideas and thier way of interpreting the teachs of islam.
at the same time, i find it too hard to belive that america - by its acts - target only terrorists and murderers.

for that pope located in vatican, i tell you what? history tell us that vatican was - and appearintly still- one of the main enemies and attackers to islam (remember 200 years of crusades against us?), pope speech tell us that, he hate islam, he disguise islam, he think islam does'nt deserve to be exists, this's what i understand from what he says.

imagine the reverse situation, if the shiekh of Azhar (the biggest islamic schools in the world) tell us something bad about pope and vatican (and i'm sure thier are lots of bad things over thier) what the "free world" will say?

is there a war on islam? yes, i very much belive that and hundreds of millions share the same opinion with me

 

[Sunstone]

I'm not sure there's a war on Islam, but I feel sometimes gets pretty close to that, especially after speeches like the Pope's. The Pope's speech will only serve to disunite people in the war on terror. I see no good coming from it.

 

[YmirGF]

imagine the reverse situation, if the shiekh of Azhar (the biggest islamic schools in the world) tell us something bad about pope and vatican (and i'm sure thier are lots of bad things over thier) what the "free world" will say?

is there a war on islam? yes, i very much belive that and hundreds of millions share the same opinion with me

I have little doubt many share your opinions. That would seem to be self-evident.

You ask what we would say if your great Shiekh of Azhar tells us something bad about the pope and the vatican? Here is my answer:

1. It is unlikely that anyone in "the west" would even note his words.
2. If his words were indeed noted, it is unlikely you would see people marching in the streets over those words. HIGHLY unlikely.
3. The truth, if you want it, is that we would probably just laugh ourselves silly.

That, my friend, is the plain unvarnished truth. Read it and weep.

 

[kai]

if you asked me about my opinion, i'll tell you that there's a war on islam.
i consider myself - if i use the westeren terms - a moderate muslim, i oppose the extremists ideas and thier way of interpreting the teachs of islam.
at the same time, i find it too hard to belive that america - by its acts - target only terrorists and murderers. can you provide evidence for this war on Islam

for that pope located in vatican, i tell you what? history tell us that vatican was - and appearintly still- one of the main enemies and attackers to islam (remember 200 years of crusades against us?), pope speech tell us that, he hate islam, he disguise islam, he think islam does'nt deserve to be exists, this's what i understand from what he says. remember the 1,ooo years of islamic military expansion fom the levant to north africa and spain

imagine the reverse situation, if the shiekh of Azhar (the biggest islamic schools in the world) tell us something bad about pope and vatican (and i'm sure thier are lots of bad things over thier) what the "free world" will say?
Not a lot the sheik is entitled to free speech like everyone else
is there a war on islam? yes, i very much belive that and hundreds of millions share the same opinion with me

why is there this victim mentality that everyone is agianst you?

 

[Sunstone]

I have little doubt many share your opinions. That would seem to be self-evident.

You ask what we would say if your great Shiekh of Azhar tells us something bad about the pope and the vatican? Here is my answer:

1. It is unlikely that anyone in "the west" would even note his words.
2. If his words were indeed noted, it is unlikely you would see people marching in the streets over those words. HIGHLY unlikely.
3. The truth, if you want it, is that we would probably just laugh ourselves silly.

That, my friend, is the plain unvarnished truth. Read it and weep.

I think most people would treat the news that way, Paul, but the bimbo talk show hosts would claim holy murder upon hearing it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It reminds me of the cartoon episode....

Precisely correct, particularly when one recalls that the insensitivity of the cartoons paled in comparson with the sociopathic barbarism evident in in some of the response.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Precisely correct, particularly when one recalls that the insensitivity of the cartoons paled in comparson with the sociopathic barbarism evident in in some of the response.

The "sociopathic barbarism in some of the response" (whatever you like to paint them as) is the result of the provocating starter cause of the cartoons. Without the cause, there is no response. I always advocate resolve the root cause rather than clamping down the response.

Anyway, the cartoons are pale in comparison to what the Pope is doing. I think the council for electing the Pope should do something to remove the Pope to replace him with a more sensible one. Unfortunately, there is no mechanism to do that, not like in America where you can impeach the president to remove him. The Pope, once elected, stays on the post until he dies. It may be too bad a notion, but perhaps he could be removed by doing something unthinkable? Like things happened before where the Pope died a mysterious death, or like some plots in some movies like The Godfather or novels such as the one by Charles Templeton's Act of God?

 

[sindbad5]

I have little doubt many share your opinions.

many of what?
i mean muslims and non-muslims that read about the problem and have some interest on what happening far thier in the mideast.
but for the average one busy with his life, i doubt even if he know where exactly that mideast? is that thier near mexico? or between china and russia?!

You ask what we would say if your great Shiekh of Azhar

who told you he's my great Shiekh?
greatness only for allah the one bigger than me and you and even your world

1. It is unlikely that anyone in "the west" would even note his words.

with what we see in the media? i don't think so, is it as if muslims are under the microscope of the westren media so that a punch of murderes commiting a crime and claiming they do it in the name of islam, bring the whole attension of the media.

and you come and want to convince me if "My great" Shiekh of Azhar insult the pope as he did will make no one notice??? :no:
my dear it will become a gift for that media to further deform and attack these muslims who dare to insulte the pope

2. If his words were indeed noted, it is unlikely you would see people marching in the streets over those words. HIGHLY unlikely.

perhaps this lack of jealousy on the pope what make him so angery and envier on musims

3. The truth, if you want it, is that we would probably just laugh ourselves silly.

yeah, i want the truth ..., ..., where's the truth? did you forget to mention it?

That, my friend, is the plain unvarnished truth. Read it and weep.

i'm sorry "my friend", i'll not do as you advice to weep, because i wept enaugh on things more important than the bla bla bla of that pope.
i wept a river on thousands of people who murdered in iraq and afghanistan, in Qana and her sisters in lebanon, on palastine who raped by scums, etc.
i'm sorry again, i ran out of tears

 

[sindbad5]

why is there this victim mentality that everyone is agianst you?

Iiii don't know !, perhaps if your people suffer like us, you'll find the answer yourself

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The "sociopathic barbarism in some of the response" (whatever you like to paint them as) is the result of the provocating starter cause of the cartoons. Without the cause, there is no response.

Now there's a brilliant justification for just about any socially or ethically irresponsible act imaginable. That you would blame the likes of ...

or

or

on anything other than sick minds made sicker by a disgusting fundamentalism speaks volumes about how you view the world.

 

[YmirGF]

i wept a river on thousands of people who murdered in iraq and afghanistan, in Qana and her sisters in lebanon, on palastine who raped by scums, etc. i'm sorry again, i ran out of tears

A man with no tears, is a man who feels no pain. A man who feels no pain, is no longer human. It is difficult to envy one who has lost his humanity.

Think again.

 

[Djamila]

This article sums up my view quite nicely, especially since the author acknowledges the situation in the Europe at the time.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2361716,00.html

 

[Djamila]

I especially agree with all of the following:

The comment has called down the wrath of Muslim extremists and the shocked dismay of Islamic moderates.

Benedict has also, crucially, exacerbated deep divisions within his own church between traditionalist Catholics and moderate progressives.

But his damaging words contain a startling lapse in historical accuracy, in the opinion of Muslim historians. It is commonly accepted that it was Islamic and Arabic culture that kept alive the philosophy of Aristotle through the Dark Ages and made the Catholic reconciliation of faith and reason possible in the work of Thomas Aquinas. One senior Anglican source said: “If anything, Islam was the religion of reason ahead of Christianity. Mathematics and medical science were developed in the Islamic world. The clash between reason and medievalism has Muslims on the side of reason.” (Mustafa Ceric said much the same thing)

Moderate Muslim opinion is also baffled by the insensitivity of the Pope. Adnane Mokrani, a Rome-based Muslim theologian, said of the Pope’s quotation: “To use polemical texts from seven centuries back is not a suitable starting point, given that the current situation between Christianity and Islam is different.”

Yet by any yardstick Benedict’s words have betrayed his long-term antipathy towards Islam. Vatican watchers are now remembering the unprecedented privilege he granted last year of an extended interview to the late Oriana Fallaci, an Italian Islamophobe. (I remember that like it was yesterday, people were shocked beyond belief)

The description of Jean Paul II's views is insightful also.

 

[Judgement Day]

I have little doubt many share your opinions. That would seem to be self-evident.

You ask what we would say if your great Shiekh of Azhar tells us something bad about the pope and the vatican? Here is my answer:

1. It is unlikely that anyone in "the west" would even note his words.
2. If his words were indeed noted, it is unlikely you would see people marching in the streets over those words. HIGHLY unlikely.
3. The truth, if you want it, is that we would probably just laugh ourselves silly.

That, my friend, is the plain unvarnished truth. Read it and weep.

The reason why the west would never even notice Shiekh of Azhar's word is because that the Pope has nothing to do with them. Not one of their relatives, not one of their friends, noone. A Pope is mostly just a political position. Its just the same as insulting the King of Jordan, or Saudi Arabia, who cares? If you insult them, I dont mind. They have nothing to do with me. I would just laugh myself silly too. Hey..I might even just go out on a bright sunny sunday afternoon and drink a glass of lemonade while laying down on the beach waiting for the sun go to set. But when people try to insult someone who is dearest to their heart (even more dearer than our parents, our wife/husband, or our children), thats a totally different case. Ok, now you obviously know that "Muslims" are bad tempered, they could destroy anything for a cartoon, or even by just hearing a simple quote from a 14th century old emperor, what else would you want to know what "Muslims" can do? Now why the hell would such a public figure such the Pope do such thing? He definitely know what he was doing. He knows how "Muslims" could go into berserk by simple causes. What does he want? Hey Pope, could you just leave us alone and let us live our pathetic lives and stop insulting our most dearest person to our heart and soul. What do you have against him, Pope?

 

[Ody]

The "sociopathic barbarism in some of the response" (whatever you like to paint them as) is the result of the provocating starter cause of the cartoons. Without the cause, there is no response.

Hardly do 'causes' require and create on purpose such responses. Only when these 'causes' act as positive commandments that are followed or have real physical power behind them should we count them as the real starter. More to often, over reaction is a great threat to peace.

*sigh*

My articulation once again sucks balls.

 

[greatcalgarian]

A man with no tears, is a man who feels no pain. A man who feels no pain, is no longer human. It is difficult to envy one who has lost his humanity.

Think again.

Not really. In Chinese we have a saying: 欲哭无泪, meaning "wanted to cry, but no tears come out". [opposite to this one: :sad4:] This is to describe the situation of the extreme sadness and despair one is experiencing. This is the situation of those in the middle east: good law abiding God fearing Muslim, being persecuted by the West with phosphourous bombs etc, home destroyed, water supply gone, no electricity, no food etc.

 

[kai]

I especially agree with all of the following:

The comment has called down the wrath of Muslim extremists and the shocked dismay of Islamic moderates.that is not hard to do these days,thou must not be critical of the Islamic faith

Benedict has also, crucially, exacerbated deep divisions within his own church between traditionalist Catholics and moderate progressives. carry on as normal then

But his damaging words contain a startling lapse in historical accuracy, in the opinion of Muslim historians. It is commonly accepted that it was Islamic and Arabic culture that kept alive the philosophy of Aristotle through the Dark Ages and made the Catholic reconciliation of faith and reason possible in the work of Thomas Aquinas. One senior Anglican source said: “If anything, Islam was the religion of reason ahead of Christianity. Mathematics and medical science were developed in the Islamic world. The clash between reason and medievalism has Muslims on the side of reason.” (Mustafa Ceric said much the same thing) "in the opinion of muslim scholars" there was no militayry expansion and Manuel the 11 was looking at open fields when he said the know famous question not tens of thousands of muslim warriors and the great islamic leaps and bounds took place mostly in occupied spain.

Moderate Muslim opinion is also baffled by the insensitivity of the Pope. Adnane Mokrani, a Rome-based Muslim theologian, said of the Pope’s quotation: “To use polemical texts from seven centuries back is not a suitable starting point, given that the current situation between Christianity and Islam is different.” the current situation between christianity and Islam is very similar to the middle ages both think they have the god on their side

Yet by any yardstick Benedict’s words have betrayed his long-term antipathy towards Islam. Vatican watchers are now remembering the unprecedented privilege he granted last year of an extended interview to the late Oriana Fallaci, an Italian Islamophobe. (I remember that like it was yesterday, people were shocked beyond belief)
do you expect the pope to be not critical of a "rival" religion he like you beleives he follows the only true path
The description of Jean Paul II's views is insightful also.

a little less god and a little more humanity is needed in this world tosomeone like me its a total disgrace that all this effort goes into religion when people are dying in the world for lack of food and medicine, has thee been a fatality over this yet?

 

[Djamila]

Again, pointless.

I will address this, however:

"in the opinion of muslim scholars" there was no militayry expansion and Manuel the 11 was looking at open fields when he said the know famous question not tens of thousands of muslim warriors and the great islamic leaps and bounds took place mostly in occupied spain."

Wrong.