Do you think Pope is wise in making this statement even in quote?

[greatcalgarian]

Hardly do 'causes' require and create on purpose such responses. Only when these 'causes' act as positive commandments that are followed or have real physical power behind them should we count them as the real starter. More to often, over reaction is a great threat to peace.

*sigh*

My articulation once again sucks balls.

It is a matter of opinion. I can say the Pope is having 'over reaction' to the spread of Islamic faith, or the gradual decrease of influence of the Catholic faith or the erosion of the Pope authority that is the cause of his giving the said lecture.

 

[kai]

It is a matter of opinion. I can say the Pope is having 'over reaction' to the spread of Islamic faith, or the gradual decrease of influence of the Catholic faith or the erosion of the Pope authority that is the cause of his giving the said lecture.

thats your opinion and what did he say or do that causes so much furore really whats it all about

 

[greatcalgarian]

thats your opinion and what did he say or do that causes so much furore really whats it all about

Explain, do not compute:help:

 

[kai]

Explain, do not compute:help:

insufficient data............. insufficient data


explain to me whats it all about?

 

[Smoke]

The "sociopathic barbarism in some of the response" (whatever you like to paint them as) is the result of the provocating starter cause of the cartoons. Without the cause, there is no response. I always advocate resolve the root cause rather than clamping down the response.

I really don't think Muslims are moral imbeciles who have no control over their own actions and responses. If Christians rioted in the streets and threatened violence to Muslim leaders over perceived insults (for instance, the fact that Christianity is illegal in Saudi Arabia), nobody would say those Christians bear no responsibility for their own actions.

I find it hard to believe that Benedict wasn't being deliberately provocative. But if indeed the Emperor's statement was insulting to Islam, why aren't Muslims equally provoked by Muslims who say these same things about their own faith? Where's the Muslim indignation over terrorist bombings, honor killings, and religious persecution of non-Muslims (and Muslims of different sects)? If the Qur'an teaches there can be no compulsion in matters of faith, how can Muslims tolerate the religious policies of Saudi Arabia?

I'm no admirer of the Pope, but it seems to me that Muslims ought to have more pressing concerns at home to worry about. Where's the concern for justice? If Islam is a religion of peace, show us.

As for the Pope, when he forbids Catholics to participate in unjust wars and renounces the practice of withholding Communion from Catholics who don't vote as they're told to vote, I'll believe he's serious about peace, too.

 

[greatcalgarian]

I really don't think Muslims are moral imbeciles who have no control over their own actions and responses. If Christians rioted in the streets and threatened violence to Muslim leaders over perceived insults (for instance, the fact that Christianity is illegal in Saudi Arabia), nobody would say those Christians bear no responsibility for their own actions.

I find it hard to believe that Benedict wasn't being deliberately provocative. But if indeed the Emperor's statement was insulting to Islam, why aren't Muslims equally provoked by Muslims who say these same things about their own faith? Where's the Muslim indignation over terrorist bombings, honor killings, and religious persecution of non-Muslims (and Muslims of different sects)? If the Qur'an teaches there can be no compulsion in matters of faith, how can Muslims tolerate the religious policies of Saudi Arabia?

I'm no admirer of the Pope, but it seems to me that Muslims ought to have more pressing concerns at home to worry about. Where's the concern for justice? If Islam is a religion of peace, show us.

As for the Pope, when he forbids Catholics to participate in unjust wars and renounces the practice of withholding Communion from Catholics who don't vote as they're told to vote, I'll believe he's serious about peace, too.

I agreed with most of what you said, but I agreed totally with what is in this article:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2361716,00.html
as given by Djamila

 

[greatcalgarian]

insufficient data............. insufficient data


explain to me whats it all about?

I am not clear of your request

 

[kai]

I am not clear of your request

what is all the fuss about what has the pope done to deserve the bombing and burning of churches etc

 

[sindbad5]

A man with no tears, is a man who feels no pain. A man who feels no pain, is no longer human. It is difficult to envy one who has lost his humanity.

Think again.

thank for your good manners

 

[greatcalgarian]

what is all the fuss about what has the pope done to deserve the bombing and burning of churches etc

You did not follow the news?

What the Pope has done is basically quote what a 14th century emporer said about Mohamad, and in quoting that, basically the Pope is hinting that he agreed with what the emperor said about Mohamad. You can find out what the emporer said yourself if you are really keen and interested and then if you still do not compute why that is so insulting to the Muslim, then perhaps you have to go to a religious school or university to study what is Islam religion

 

[GloriaPatri]

You did not follow the news?

What the Pope has done is basically quote what a 14th century emporer said about Mohamad, and in quoting that, basically the Pope is hinting that he agreed with what the emperor said about Mohamad. You can find out what the emporer said yourself if you are really keen and interested and then if you still do not compute why that is so insulting to the Muslim, then perhaps you have to go to a religious school or university to study what is Islam religion

Well, it's a historical fact. Muhammed did conquer the Arabian peninsula and this is how Islam started to spread. I don't see what's so insulting.

 

[Djamila]

What's insulting is that he said nothing came from Muhammed that wasn't evil and inhuman.

 

[Ody]

You did not follow the news?

What the Pope has done is basically quote what a 14th century emporer said about Mohamad, and in quoting that, basically the Pope is hinting that he agreed with what the emperor said about Mohamad.

Wait...

I've quoted the mufti during the war in 48, does that mean I agree with him?

No.

The problem is that the pope didn't proclaim his disagreement with the Byzantine.

 

[divinemission]

Seriouly, everyone must calm down to see more of the Catholic Pope going to say. If people act badly or violently, then everyone are under the following scriptures judgements:

"Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measur with which you measure will be measured out to you.

"Why do you notice the splindter in your brother's eyes, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?

"How can you say to your brother, 'Let me rmove that splinter from your eye,' while the wooden beam is in your eye?

"You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother eye.

Matthew 7:1-5

 

[kai]

Again, pointless.

I will address this, however:

"in the opinion of muslim scholars" there was no militayry expansion and Manuel the 11 was looking at open fields when he said the know famous question not tens of thousands of muslim warriors and the great islamic leaps and bounds took place mostly in occupied spain."

Wrong.

source? or whats wrong with this statement?

 

[kai]

You did not follow the news?

What the Pope has done is basically quote what a 14th century emporer said about Mohamad, and in quoting that, basically the Pope is hinting that he agreed with what the emperor said about Mohamad. You can find out what the emporer said yourself if you are really keen and interested and then if you still do not compute why that is so insulting to the Muslim, then perhaps you have to go to a religious school or university to study what is Islam religion

so he is hinting that agreed with manuel 11, hinting?, hinting?,
1. A slight indication or intimation:
1. A brief or indirect suggestion;
2. A statement conveying information in an indirect fashion;

well it seems you were wrong GC he has said
"These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought".

i hope you will be apologising GC

 

[kai]

What's insulting is that he said nothing came from Muhammed that wasn't evil and inhuman.

wrong!

source! the popes speech
The pope had quoted from a medieval text which said: "Show me just what [Prophet] Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.

 

[Djamila]

wrong!

source! the popes speech
The pope had quoted from a medieval text which said: "Show me just what [Prophet] Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.

That's what I said.

 

[kai]

What's insulting is that he said nothing came from Muhammed that wasn't evil and inhuman.

that is what you said

 

[greatcalgarian]

Well, it's a historical fact. Muhammed did conquer the Arabian peninsula and this is how Islam started to spread. I don't see what's so insulting.

'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'

Conquering the Arabian peninsula is part of the military aspect of the political situation during that time, Muhammed did not forced and spread the religion by the sword. That phrase is a disinformation of the west Christian Propaganda.

It is just like if I, as a Jew's spiritual and religious leader were to say "Show me just what Jesus or Paul brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the cross the faith he preached", and the evil and inhuman can be seen from the forced conversion of native American during the early period of European invasion of the new continent

I am not trying to pitch Judaism against Christianity, but just as parallel to illustrate the serious implication of accusing another religion esteem holy one.