Do you think stepping on bugs is wrong - why or why not?

[Thrylix]

Of course there's never a "no real reason" scenario if you in fact made a choice. If you mean your leg suddenly acted involuntarily outside your control as you helplessly watched, I would suggest you set up an appointment with a neurologist. But assuming your body isn't malfunctioning like this, it is clear you were making a choice, but the underlying motives for that choice may escape your own awareness and in that sense are "outside your control", acting impulsively, lashing out, hitting, thrashing, killing, etc.

I think what your friend was calling into question is why you make choices to kill living things for sport, when it serves no purpose other than an individual exercise of power over other living things. In other words it is serving only a baser, more selfish need to smash an insect for the sake of power over it, such as the 12 year old who smashes a caterpillar just to kill it. I think if you were both 12 he wouldn't have questioned it. But he is questioning a young adult who continues to act like that, because at a certain stage adults should at least move beyond this need to dominate others in order to have self-power. In other words, it's immature.

I wouldn't call it sport.. I don't find it "fun" if that's what you mean. A stomped spider or anthill might give me friend or me a snicker or two, but that's about it. Like I said, I've been stepping on bugs my whole life. Most of my male friends will step on a bug without a second thought. Seriously, if we were playing a game of tennis and a beetle or something crawls too close to our feet, any one of my buddies would have no problem stomping the little guy into a pancake so we could continue. So I'm not convinced that most people are "beyond" that.

Then again, it is a positive quality for those who go into such careers as politics and finance, where viewing other living creatures, human or otherwise, as objects to manipulate for self-gain is the sought after quality. I think how we see the world, becomes ultimately a reflection of how we see ourselves and our place in it, as an exploiter, or a steward of it and others.


Rationalizations only exist when there is a twinge of doubt concerning ones own actions. We wouldn't need to seeking for self-justification if we truly were at peace with ourselves and our actions.

I think you're questioning yourself.

Maybe a little. I'm more questioning other people's reactions to it. They're just bugs... they're going to be squished, move on.

 

[Windwalker]

I wouldn't call it sport.. I don't find it "fun" if that's what you mean. A stomped spider or anthill might give me friend or me a snicker or two, but that's about it. Like I said, I've been stepping on bugs my whole life. Most of my male friends will step on a bug without a second thought. Seriously, if we were playing a game of tennis and a beetle or something crawls too close to our feet, any one of my buddies would have no problem stomping the little guy into a pancake so we could continue. So I'm not convinced that most people are "beyond" that.

Of course what you are saying here is not what you said in the OP. You said, "I was bored so before it got away I slid my foot over and quietly crunched the little guy.". So, you chose to crush it because you were bored. I call that sport. You did it, according to your own admission to entertain yourself.

But to address you reframing the argument to ask should we feel distress, guilt, and remorse over killing insect out of a need? I don't believe we need to become morose about it, but I do think it is important to realize all life has inherent value. That doesn't mean however we need to practice a "catch and release" policy for fruit flies infesting our kitchens! That doesn't mean we have to walk across the ground at a snail's pace so we don't inadvertently step on an ant! All that is very different a question than asking if killing an insect by "stomping on it," because as you said, "I was bored", is a moral question. I would say in the case of the latter, its obvious it is. You don't feel conflicted because you killed a spider, as I don't feel conflicted for killing fruit flies. But to "stomp" on one because you are bored does obviously pose a question.

People burn cats because of boredom too, and then display their burnt remains to the friends as a trophy of their exploits. What adolescent fun. Kick the Kitty - Game

You answer the question yourself. I think you already know.

 

[ACleverName]

I have a "kill spiders on sight policy" in my house hold. So not, its not wrong.

 

[Thrylix]

Of course what you are saying here is not what you said in the OP. You said, "I was bored so before it got away I slid my foot over and quietly crunched the little guy.". So, you chose to crush it because you were bored. I call that sport. You did it, according to your own admission to entertain yourself.

I feel that sport is an awkward word for it, but I get your point. Even if I'm crushing a spider just for a sense of amusement though, why is that immature?

But to address you reframing the argument to ask should we feel distress, guilt, and remorse over killing insect out of a need? I don't believe we need to become morose about it, but I do think it is important to realize all life has inherent value. That doesn't mean however we need to practice a "catch and release" policy for fruit flies infesting our kitchens! That doesn't mean we have to walk across the ground at a snail's pace so we don't inadvertently step on an ant! All that is very different a question than asking if killing an insect by "stomping on it," because as you said, "I was bored", is a moral question. I would say in the case of the latter, its obvious it is. You don't feel conflicted because you killed a spider, as I don't feel conflicted for killing fruit flies. But to "stomp" on one because you are bored does obviously pose a question.

Why is the word stomp in quotation marks? Well, my question isn't whether we should feel bad about killing insects out of a need. I do that all the time. What I'm saying is I or any one of my buddies would have no problem crushing a bug even without a need. For example if we were playing tennis and a beetle was on the court, my friends or I would more than likely flatten the little guy on purpose. You say nothing has no real reason, but I don't know what the motivation would be in that scenario. Should that arouse different feelings?

People burn cats because of boredom too, and then display their burnt remains to the friends as a trophy of their exploits. What adolescent fun. Kick the Kitty - Game

You answer the question yourself. I think you already know.

That's sort of a different level.

 

[Windwalker]

I feel that sport is an awkward word for it, but I get your point. Even if I'm crushing a spider just for a sense of amusement though, why is that immature?

Well think about it. Why does a child pull the wings off a fly? It gives them a sense of power over something, in that case who really cares? It's just a fly. Were the same child to cut the tail off a cat, that would evoke a much harsher criticism of his behavior. Bottom line, it's a behavior that's about exerting power over another. To kill, it the ultimate power over another.

Why this is immature is because as adult we find better outlets for such urges for power. As an adult to smash an insect and show it to your friends as a sort of trophy of the exploit is sort of doing the same thing as the child does. For an adult, true power is power over themselves, not over others. But as I said, that same power over others urge can still manifest itself in those who seek control over others, to dominate and enslave them, to collect the biggest pile of money and deny it to others, and so forth. Brokers and bankers are great examples of this. They too see others as object of ones own domination, is a more refined, albeight only slight improvement over killing and raping which see others as objects of exploit, not as inherently worthy. I say it's better to see the impulse as it is and rise above it, not take pleasure in the sense it give us to dominate.

Again, if it's purposeless, for any reason other than seeking a sense of power over others, it's a less developed mentality, like that which you see in a child.

Why is the word stomp in quotation marks?

Because you used the word, so I was marking it out as something use chose to use in how you described it. What purpose is their to "stomp" other than power? "Smash!! You're dead!". That's power. Stomping is aggression. To simply step on something to kill is utilitarian. It would be the difference between saying you killed the mouse that got into your house, versus "I blew that sonofa***** away!". I hear a difference between the two.

Well, my question isn't whether we should feel bad about killing insects out of a need. I do that all the time. What I'm saying is I or any one of my buddies would have no problem crushing a bug even without a need. For example if we were playing tennis and a beetle was on the court, my friends or I would more than likely flatten the little guy on purpose. You say nothing has no real reason, but I don't know what the motivation would be in that scenario. Should that arouse different feelings?

The motivation in the "Tennis Court Incident" would be that the insect was a distraction to the game. Personally, I would have just taken the racket and flicked it off the court. But someone else may feel that's too much work, like trying to "catch and release" fruitflies (something I wouldn't do). That's still different than "stomping it", which is how you described what happened. I consider that juvenile. "Look, I smashed that sucker! Hah!" That's power. The motivation is to have power over something without an actual need.

P.S. There are three types of power:

1. Power over others
2. Power with others
3. Power over yourself

Which do think the above points to?

 

[Yerda]

I would say that it is objectively and unequivocally wrong to kill the poor wee chap.

 

[Thrylix]

As an adult to smash an insect and show it to your friends as a sort of trophy of the exploit is sort of doing the same thing as the child does.

I see your point but I didn't really show it to my buddy as a trophy. I just thought it was funny how the little guy was trapped in mud on the bottom of my foot and be stuck there for the rest of my day. I don't know how to read into that though.

Because you used the word, so I was marking it out as something use chose to use in how you described it. What purpose is their to "stomp" other than power? "Smash!! You're dead!". That's power. Stomping is aggression. To simply step on something to kill is utilitarian. It would be the difference between saying you killed the mouse that got into your house, versus "I blew that sonofa***** away!". I hear a difference between the two.

Maybe to make sure it's nice and dead? True, there's an aggression in slamming my foot down. But I think that's just irritation due to a bug being inconveniently located or being distracting or bothersome to my presence. However, in the case of the spider on the floor, I didn't stomp on him. I very lazily slid back in my chair and quietly slid my foot over him.

The motivation in the "Tennis Court Incident" would be that the insect was a distraction to the game. Personally, I would have just taken the racket and flicked it off the court. But someone else may feel that's too much work, like trying to "catch and release" fruitflies (something I wouldn't do). That's still different than "stomping it", which is how you described what happened. I consider that juvenile. "Look, I smashed that sucker! Hah!" That's power. The motivation is to have power over something without an actual need.

P.S. There are three types of power:

1. Power over others
2. Power with others
3. Power over yourself

Which do think the above points to?

I suppose its power over others. But that's the reality of things.