Do you understand Religion, or do you think you understand Religion

[mikkel_the_dane]

to just jump in here,
faith has come to mean ...more like say... a hunch that one gets...it may be vague and nebulous or more developed,
but like a good detective that has a kind of feel for the job and that suspicious mind that does imagine things, yet uncannily accurate,
as follow-up has to show,
if not, then those hunch's were as valuable as any popfart idea ends up being seen as.

which is the basic idea, and there has to be some follow-up to verify the hunch....
maybe the case isn't solved, but the hunch paid off and there is now new clues to look into.....
if not, it may be wrong, and usually gets re-evaluated at that point......
but it is also cliche in that this plot line is common fodder for tv series/movies.
how many shows are made where somebody has an idea [about whatever].....it is sneered at, they get discredited and smeared, made to look foolish, but they stick to it, classic underdog, who ends up proving they were right when everyone said they were wrong, usually because the secret nemesis was working to sway public opinion to discredit the one who was actually onto them.

Okay, if that is how you view faith, I accept that you view it like. I don't view it like that.

 

[MNoBody]

Okay, if that is how you view faith, I accept that you view it like. I don't view it like that.

well no shirt, sherlock..... I didn't expect that you would.... I was making conversation...typing is not my forte'

suppose I will refrain from speaking up then...seems kind of pointless.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

well no shirt, sherlock..... I didn't expect that you would.... I was making conversation...typing is not my forte'

suppose I will refrain from speaking up then...seems kind of pointless.

No, I do get where you are coming from. And in a limited sense there is an aspect of that to faith, but there is more than that. Your post wasn't a waste of and you presented your idea well.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Again, semantics. I would say that - since I value science - I believe the water will boil.

I'm more confident in water boiling than God doing what I ask or want. Though I may have a little more faith in God doing what I want than people.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I actually learned from your: Value science vs. believe water will boil.

If you catch me on a good day, I can minimize my relativism. You are nice and not triggering me. You are good at it.

I am the water will boil person! They just mentioned it because I mentioned it! I wake up in the morning and say "I expect the water will boil!" that is my faith!

 

[QuestioningMind]

I can and thereby I have show you something contradictory. You have strong faith in X and I have in non-X. You are looking at it.
Truth is in the mind and nowhere else.

NO... everyone does NOT have their OWN truth. That's what's wrong with the world today. The Earth is NOT both a flat disc AND a sphere... it's one or the other. You might have the strongest faith EVER that the Earth is flat and you'd STILL be wrong.

 

[MNoBody]

No, I do get where you are coming from. And in a limited sense there is an aspect of that to faith, but there is more than that. Your post wasn't a waste of and you presented your idea well.

well, next time i will just not bother..... thanks

 

[QuestioningMind]

Useless is in your mind and nowhere else. What you consider useful and reliable is a cognitive construct in you.

Hardly. IF you have faith that the Earth is a flat disc you are WRONG. IF you have faith that your computer works because it has magical pixies inside of it you are WRONG. IF you have faith that the COVID-19 virus is nothing but a big hoax made up by the world to discredit Trump, you are WRONG.

Your strong FEELINGS of faith DO NOT equate to verifiable evidence.

 

[QuestioningMind]

So how is "ROFL" true, useful and reliable with evidence?

ROFL

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

NO... everyone does NOT have their OWN truth. That's what's wrong with the world today. The Earth is NOT both a flat disc AND a sphere... it's one or the other. You might have the strongest faith EVER that the Earth is flat and you'd STILL be wrong.

I agree. This subjective, everyone has their own truth thing can get really difficult and disturbing, and even dangerous. I'm with team "One Truth". The truth has to be established through reasoning and verifiable sorts of things that make sense or have higher probabilities and likelihoods and repeatability. If there is no bridge there in the canyon, you'll fall to your death and possibly lead others to their death, injury, or destruction, by saying something you only think or guess is true without being certain, if there is no bridge, you must let the people know and you have to be told yourself. There isn't "well, there might be a bridge (made of air)", no sneaky business to hold on to silly lies your parents might have told you, it can end up really hurting people.

I remember this one criminal scumbag who was defrauding poor villagers by insisting that their taking medicine and giving medicine to their children in dire need of it was a sin that would harm them, and instead he was taking their entire life savings for him to claim that he will privately pray a single prayer! He was the most wicked and corrupt devil I've ever seen, and it was because of his evil lying and his false "truth" that he was basically committing mass murder on top of his theft. That is the problem with liars and everyone spreading their own evil "Truth" and defrauding people with it. It is not harmless activity, it can be devastating in its effects and how it harms the weak-minded or vulnerable. People have to be vigilant and fight hard for the truth!

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

to just jump in here,
faith has come to mean ...more like say... a hunch that one gets...it may be vague and nebulous or more developed,
but like a good detective that has a kind of feel for the job and that suspicious mind that does imagine things, yet uncannily accurate,
as follow-up has to show,
if not, then those hunch's were as valuable as any popfart idea ends up being seen as.

which is the basic idea, and there has to be some follow-up to verify the hunch....
maybe the case isn't solved, but the hunch paid off and there is now new clues to look into.....
if not, it may be wrong, and usually gets re-evaluated at that point......
but it is also cliche in that this plot line is common fodder for tv series/movies.
how many shows are made where somebody has an idea [about whatever].....it is sneered at, they get discredited and smeared, made to look foolish, but they stick to it, classic underdog, who ends up proving they were right when everyone said they were wrong, usually because the secret nemesis was working to sway public opinion to discredit the one who was actually onto them.

Cool show idea!

 

[nPeace]

@The Artis Magistra what you perceive as passive aggression is really me trying to understand a person, and reason with that person.

I really am trying to do so in a nice way.
However, I find it is often not that easy, when persons apparently are so defensive, and ....
You see, I usually hold back from speaking my mind on certain things... unless I strongly believe you need to hear it. Otherwise, I keep quiet about it.

That's not cowardly, imo. I view it as avoiding further tension, if I realize the person has already taken the defensive.
I would consider it cowardly, when one is not "always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have" - 1 Peter 3:15
To me, that s saying that one just wants to be comfortable with what they believe, and they don't take it lightly for anyone whom might make them feel uncomfortable about it.
So it bothers them, and they can't speak kindly to that person anymore... In fact they stop speaking to the person.

The person has not attacked them, or is not seeking to do them harm. In fact, I think rather than take offense at what someone says, the wise thing to do, is consider, if that person is trying to help, because they have your best interest at heart, rather than assume the person has set out to damage you. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)

However, none of this is new to me. I know how people guard the religion they prefer - not because they know it is the truth (most people don't even believe that is attainable),but because it suits them... as was mentioned.

So like I said before... no need to repeat it , I have been enlightened.

Now. are you finished, or do you want to continue your rant. By the way, don't you think you are bullying...? ...but if you feel justified...
Also, it's your prerogative to believe / feel / think what you like. Those never reveal the real truth.

I can't think of anything more that I want to say on this, so... Have a good day, and take care.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Many people in RF holds a belief in one Religion or an other.
Many people in RF do not hold a belief in Religion.

1: Are you sure you understand what Religion really is, and what is needed to be done to gain full effect of the practice ?

2: Or do you think you know what Religion really is about, but do not see the need to practice any of it to know and understand?

I think these are false options as they really are one and the same.

When one expresses to understand something, it is pretty much implied that that person thinks he understands something. Else he wouldn't express it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I think these are false options as they really are one and the same.

When one expresses to understand something, it is pretty much implied that that person thinks he understands something. Else he wouldn't express it.

It is a question for others, not about my own understanding

I know i dont know regood enough

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The teaching given to Muhammad from God is the teachi follow and will be following, that means even i do not say Christian teachings are wrong i do not follow the teaching in the bible

Nevertheless, the very religious doctrine you follow requires you to believe the christian teachings are wrong.
The trinity is considered polytheism. The quran isn't much of a fan of polytheism.
Worshipping gods that aren't Allah, is considered idolatry. Also not exactly a good thing.

How do you marry the fact that the doctrine you follow requires you to believe things that are apparantly counter your principles?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Nevertheless, the very religious doctrine you follow requires you to believe the christian teachings are wrong.
The trinity is considered polytheism. The quran isn't much of a fan of polytheism.
Worshipping gods that aren't Allah, is considered idolatry. Also not exactly a good thing.

How do you marry the fact that the doctrine you follow requires you to believe things that are apparantly counter your principles?

It does not order me to hate or discredit any religion at all.
I believe in the teaching in the Qur'an and should only follow that, not mixing it with other religious teachings.

Allah do not teach us to hate others. Actually the teaching teaches us to be good toward others.

But i know many only focus on a few verses that can be interpreted to mean what you want it to mean.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It is a question for others, not about my own understanding

I know i dont know regood enough

I'm not talking about you specifically. I'm talking about everyone.

By definition, if you express that understand something, it is implied that you *think* or *believe* that you understand it. And you could be wrong about that.

Now, when it comes to things that actually manifest in the world, you can actually test your understanding.

For example, if you think you understand newtonian physics, you should be able to make accurate calculations about falling objects, acceleration, forces required for certain movements, etc. In short, you should be able to correctly apply the laws of motion to real-life things.

Successfully doing so, would demonstrate that your understanding of the newtonian laws of motion are pretty accurate.

Not so with religion off course. There's nothing that you could do to demonstrate to an independent third party that your understanding is accurate. It would be all semantics instead.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It does not order me to hate or discredit any religion at all.
I believe in the teaching in the Qur'an and should only follow that, not mixing it with other religious teachings.

Allah do not teach us to hate others. Actually the teaching teaches us to be good toward others.

But i know many only focus on a few verses that can be interpreted to mean what you want it to mean.

You didn't actually address the point I raised.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I'm not talking about you specifically. I'm talking about everyone.

By definition, if you express that understand something, it is implied that you *think* or *believe* that you understand it. And you could be wrong about that.

Now, when it comes to things that actually manifest in the world, you can actually test your understanding.

For example, if you think you understand newtonian physics, you should be able to make accurate calculations about falling objects, acceleration, forces required for certain movements, etc. In short, you should be able to correctly apply the laws of motion to real-life things.

Successfully doing so, would demonstrate that your understanding of the newtonian laws of motion are pretty accurate.

Not so with religion off course. There's nothing that you could do to demonstrate to an independent third party that your understanding is accurate. It would be all semantics instead.

Religion is a personal practice between the believer and God, no need to convince non believers, you are the only one who can change your own belief, i can not change it for you.

All i think of is how i can practice better every day the belief i hold.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You didn't actually address the point I raised.

I did, but you see Islam different than what i do.

Why so obsessed with telling believers what they should believe according to you? You dont even believe in any religion