Do your beliefs make you happy?

[SomeRandom]

Well yes I guess. My beliefs are about the experience of....life, the divine or whatever.
As for God allowing suffering, if there was none on earth what would be the point of heaven? Indeed if God could fix us all would we still have free will?

 

[Spiderman]

You are saying that two things need to be present for you to be happy. You need to believe x and God needs to grace you with Y. If and only if both are present you will be happy. If you believed z it doesn't matter how much God graces you you will never be happy. And it doesn't matter that you believe x unless God gives you grace?

Is that right?

Pretty much, but what I believe still alters my misery or happiness

 

[Spiderman]

Well yes I guess. My beliefs are about the experience of....life, the divine or whatever.
As for God allowing suffering, if there was none on earth what would be the point of heaven? Indeed if God could fix us all would we still have free will?

God could protect a child from getting molested without violating free will. Police do that and it doesn't violate free will.

God could enlighten everybody about the best choices to make while still giving them freedom to disobey.

Ted Bundy escaped from prison twice to murder and rape again.
God could have easily enlightened the jailers about him tunneling through the ceiling without violating free will , or tell the police where he is staying , or give people the discernment to not get in the car with him etc.

 

[Akivah]

When I first converted to Catholicism, my beliefs were not healthy at all. They did not make me happy.

I believed more than 90% of the world was in a state of mortal sin, and , that everyday Souls were falling into hell like leaves falling off trees. I believed that sin cried out to heaven for vengeance, and that God was punishing the world through Wars, famines, heresies, and disease.

I have since been cured of such views. But the belief in such things remains strangely prevalent among believers. If I chose to believe such things it would only make me miserable.

I think that is a fundamental failing of Christianity, making god out to be a sadist of some sort.

 

[Jainarayan]

God could protect a child from getting molested without violating free will. Police do that and it doesn't violate free will.

God could enlighten everybody about the best choices to make while still giving them freedom to disobey.

Ted Bundy escaped from prison twice to murder and rape again.
God could have easily enlightened the jailers about him tunneling through the ceiling without violating free will , or tell the police where he is staying , or give people the discernment to not get in the car with him etc.

That puts God on the level of nothing more than a manipulator and controller. Why should God be responsible for everything that happens or doesn't happen? Why is God always to blame? I'm assuming you are talking about the Abrahamic God, who in my belief is no more than just another asura or rakshasa like Ravana, Hiranyakashipu, Indrajit, Mahabali, et. al. that Vishnu is temporarily letting run the world, for reasons only Vishnu knows. If that is indeed the case, all the more reason to reject the idea that God is responsible for everything that happens. But these are just my beliefs.

 

[Spiderman]

That puts God on the level of nothing more than a manipulator and controller. Why should God be responsible for everything that happens or doesn't happen? Why is God always to blame? I'm assuming you are talking about the Abrahamic God, who in my belief is no more than just another asura or rakshasa like Ravana, Hiranyakashipu, Indrajit, Mahabali, et. al. that Vishnu is temporarily letting run the world, for reasons only Vishnu knows. If that is indeed the case, all the more reason to reject the idea that God is responsible for everything that happens. But these are just my beliefs.

God isn't responsible for everything that happens, but wouldn't you rather live in a world full of enlightened people who knew and understood the truth. They still can choose not to follow it.

Yes, Yahweh may just be one of many gods. He sure Trumped the others!

 

[Jainarayan]

but wouldn't you rather live in a world full of enlightened people who knew and understood the truth.

Not really... because whose truth? What is truth? The seeking and discovering is half the fun.

He sure Trumped the others!

Only for those who believe that.

 

[SomeRandom]

God could protect a child from getting molested without violating free will. Police do that and it doesn't violate free will.

God could enlighten everybody about the best choices to make while still giving them freedom to disobey.

Ted Bundy escaped from prison twice to murder and rape again.
God could have easily enlightened the jailers about him tunneling through the ceiling without violating free will , or tell the police where he is staying , or give people the discernment to not get in the car with him etc.

God could. If it regarded us as mere toys to manipulate like some puppeteer. But humans are responsible for their own "evil." Maybe it does save a kid every so often. But you're taking this rather personally. My "God" doesn't, because this life is not meant to be sunshine and rainbows. You see suffering as bad, I see suffering as a thing that makes people feel bad. There's a difference I suppose. Black and white thinking is too well black and white. Nothing is wholly bad or wholly good it just is.

 

[Quiddity]

Sometimes it does.....And sometimes it doesn't. I suppose it depends on which part I focus on.

That's the thing, not everybody walks around with their beliefs in mind.

Some beliefs become a part of them; others not so much.

 

[Spiderman]

God could. If it regarded us as mere toys to manipulate like some puppeteer. But humans are responsible for their own "evil." Maybe it does save a kid every so often. But you're taking this rather personally. My "God" doesn't, because this life is not meant to be sunshine and rainbows. You see suffering as bad, I see suffering as a thing that makes people feel bad. There's a difference I suppose. Black and white thinking is too well black and white. Nothing is wholly bad or wholly good it just is.

I'm not responsible for some of my evil, for if I knew then what I know now, I would have made the opposite choice... hence my stance on God's refusal to Enlighten people.

 

[sun rise]

My beliefs don't make me happy because a belief has little power even though one of them is that we're all destined to live in joy. Trying to do my best by acting on my beliefs does bring me joy. But joy is not happiness. Joy is more than the superficial happiness that we feel when we get what we want. Here's a St. Francis story about what is perfect joy.

HOW ST FRANCIS, WALKING ONE DAY WITH BROTHER LEO, EXPLAINED TO HIM WHAT
THINGS ARE PERFECT JOY

One day in winter, as St Francis was going with Brother Leo from Perugia to St Mary of the Angels, and was suffering greatly from the cold, he called to Brother Leo, who was walking on before him, and said to him: "Brother Leo, if it were to please God that the Friars Minor should give, in all lands, a great example of holiness and edification, write down, and note carefully, that this would not be perfect joy."

A little further on, St Francis called to him a second time: "O Brother Leo, if the Friars Minor were to make the lame to walk, if they should make straight the crooked, chase away demons, give sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, speech to the dumb, and, what is even a far greater work, if they should raise the dead after four days, write that this would not be perfect joy."

Shortly after, he cried out again: "O Brother Leo, if the Friars Minor knew all languages; if they were versed in all science; if they could explain all Scripture; if they had the gift of prophecy, and could reveal, not only all future things, but likewise the secrets of all consciences and all souls, write that this would not be perfect joy."

After proceeding a few steps farther, he cried out again with a loud voice: "O Brother Leo, thou little lamb of God! if the Friars Minor could speak with the tongues of angels; if they could explain the course of the stars; if they knew the virtues of all plants; if all the treasures of the earth were revealed to them; if they were acquainted with the various qualities of all birds, of all fish, of all animals, of men, of trees, of stones, of roots, and of waters - write that this would not be perfect joy."

Shortly after, he cried out again: "O Brother Leo, if the Friars Minor had the gift of preaching so as to convert all infidels to the faith of Christ, write that this would not be perfect joy."

Now when this manner of discourse had lasted for the space of two miles, Brother Leo wondered much within himself; and, questioning the saint, he said: "Father, I pray thee teach me wherein is perfect joy."

St Francis answered: "If, when we shall arrive at St Mary of the Angels, all drenched with rain and trembling with cold, all covered with mud and exhausted from hunger; if, when we knock at the convent-gate, the porter should come angrily and ask us who we are; if, after we have told him, `We are two of the brethren', he should answer angrily, `What ye say is not the truth; ye are but two impostors going about to deceive the world, and take away the alms of the poor; begone I say'; if then he refuse to open to us, and leave us outside, exposed to the snow and rain, suffering from cold and hunger till nightfall - then, if we accept such injustice, such cruelty and such contempt with patience, without being ruffled and without murmuring, believing with humility and charity that the porter really knows us, and that it is God who maketh him to speak thus against us, write down, O Brother Leo, that this is perfect joy.

And if we knock again, and the porter come out in anger to drive us away with oaths and blows, as if we were vile impostors, saying, `Begone, miserable robbers! to to the hospital, for here you shall neither eat nor sleep!' - and if we accept all this with patience, with joy, and with charity, O Brother Leo, write that this indeed is perfect joy.

And if, urged by cold and hunger, we knock again, calling to the porter and entreating him with many tears to open to us and give us shelter, for the love of God, and if he come out more angry than before, exclaiming, `These are but importunate rascals, I will deal with them as they deserve'; and taking a knotted stick, he seize us by the hood, throwing us on the ground, rolling us in the snow, and shall beat and wound us with the knots in the stick - if we bear all these injuries with patience and joy, thinking of the sufferings of our Blessed Lord, which we would share out of love for him, write, O Brother Leo, that here, finally, is perfect joy.

 

[Spiderman]

My beliefs don't make me happy because a belief has little power even though one of them is that we're all destined to live in joy. Trying to do my best by acting on my beliefs does bring me joy. But joy is not happiness. Joy is more than the superficial happiness that we feel when we get what we want. Here's a St. Francis story about what is perfect joy.

HOW ST FRANCIS, WALKING ONE DAY WITH BROTHER LEO, EXPLAINED TO HIM WHAT
THINGS ARE PERFECT JOY

One day in winter, as St Francis was going with Brother Leo from Perugia to St Mary of the Angels, and was suffering greatly from the cold, he called to Brother Leo, who was walking on before him, and said to him: "Brother Leo, if it were to please God that the Friars Minor should give, in all lands, a great example of holiness and edification, write down, and note carefully, that this would not be perfect joy."

A little further on, St Francis called to him a second time: "O Brother Leo, if the Friars Minor were to make the lame to walk, if they should make straight the crooked, chase away demons, give sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, speech to the dumb, and, what is even a far greater work, if they should raise the dead after four days, write that this would not be perfect joy."

Shortly after, he cried out again: "O Brother Leo, if the Friars Minor knew all languages; if they were versed in all science; if they could explain all Scripture; if they had the gift of prophecy, and could reveal, not only all future things, but likewise the secrets of all consciences and all souls, write that this would not be perfect joy."

After proceeding a few steps farther, he cried out again with a loud voice: "O Brother Leo, thou little lamb of God! if the Friars Minor could speak with the tongues of angels; if they could explain the course of the stars; if they knew the virtues of all plants; if all the treasures of the earth were revealed to them; if they were acquainted with the various qualities of all birds, of all fish, of all animals, of men, of trees, of stones, of roots, and of waters - write that this would not be perfect joy."

Shortly after, he cried out again: "O Brother Leo, if the Friars Minor had the gift of preaching so as to convert all infidels to the faith of Christ, write that this would not be perfect joy."

Now when this manner of discourse had lasted for the space of two miles, Brother Leo wondered much within himself; and, questioning the saint, he said: "Father, I pray thee teach me wherein is perfect joy."

St Francis answered: "If, when we shall arrive at St Mary of the Angels, all drenched with rain and trembling with cold, all covered with mud and exhausted from hunger; if, when we knock at the convent-gate, the porter should come angrily and ask us who we are; if, after we have told him, `We are two of the brethren', he should answer angrily, `What ye say is not the truth; ye are but two impostors going about to deceive the world, and take away the alms of the poor; begone I say'; if then he refuse to open to us, and leave us outside, exposed to the snow and rain, suffering from cold and hunger till nightfall - then, if we accept such injustice, such cruelty and such contempt with patience, without being ruffled and without murmuring, believing with humility and charity that the porter really knows us, and that it is God who maketh him to speak thus against us, write down, O Brother Leo, that this is perfect joy.

And if we knock again, and the porter come out in anger to drive us away with oaths and blows, as if we were vile impostors, saying, `Begone, miserable robbers! to to the hospital, for here you shall neither eat nor sleep!' - and if we accept all this with patience, with joy, and with charity, O Brother Leo, write that this indeed is perfect joy.

And if, urged by cold and hunger, we knock again, calling to the porter and entreating him with many tears to open to us and give us shelter, for the love of God, and if he come out more angry than before, exclaiming, `These are but importunate rascals, I will deal with them as they deserve'; and taking a knotted stick, he seize us by the hood, throwing us on the ground, rolling us in the snow, and shall beat and wound us with the knots in the stick - if we bear all these injuries with patience and joy, thinking of the sufferings of our Blessed Lord, which we would share out of love for him, write, O Brother Leo, that here, finally, is perfect joy.

I wish I could give you a golden cup for that post!

 

[Orbit]

My life situation makes me happy, not my beliefs.

 

[Spiderman]

My life situation makes me happy, not my beliefs.

If you believed without a doubt that Donald Trump was going to wire a billion dollars to your bank account tommorow, would that make you happy?

 

[Orbit]

If you believed without a doubt that Donald Trump was going to wire a billion dollars to your bank account tommorow, would that make you happy?

Not until the deposit hit the account

 

[Spiderman]

Not until the deposit hit the account

If Donald Trump was your best friend and he never lied to you, and he helped you out financially in the past, would such a promise make you happy today?

 

[Spiderman]

If Donald Trump was your best friend and he never lied to you, and he helped you out financially in the past, would such a promise make you happy today?

And of course you had unwavering faith in Donald Trump's word

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I feel that my beliefs and philosophy give me tools to deal with things that tend to make other people unhappy in ways that reduce or nullify any "unhappy" effects. If something is bad, I realize that my plight is no worse or more important than any other's, and I try to decide to face it head-on, because ultimately of what matter is it if I either fail or succeed? What do the circumstances my personal plight truly matter in the grand scheme? Obviously I will try for the more favorable outcome for my own purposes... but if I am unable to achieve it, I am immediately able to recognize the perspective from which my failure doesn't even matter.

I believe it is why I tend not to feel depressed. As someone else said in one of the replies already: What is, is. What is not, is not. I have no expectations of happiness, no expectations of greatness, and no amorphous feeling that I am "meant for something more." Without those things (things that I feel most other people have) I find I am much harder to disappoint.

 

[Orbit]

If Donald Trump was your best friend and he never lied to you, and he helped you out financially in the past, would such a promise make you happy today?

Nope.

 

[SomeRandom]

I'm not responsible for some of my evil, for if I knew then what I know now, I would have made the opposite choice... hence my stance on God's refusal to Enlighten people.

Being unenlightened and being/bringing evil is not the same thing. I do not believe in evil anyway, Twas merely a translation. Everyone has to live with the consequences of their actions. Sometimes the consequences hurt, sometimes help, sometimes they are not even logical. As in sometimes we can do wrong and get rewarded for a short time. Other times seemingly "good" people can have crap poured on them. Again such is life. Being somehow magically enlightened by God takes away all the experiences one can have, good or bad. However you wish to define those terms. In my belief system both are important to experience for the soul. It's all in how one handles it I guess that can determine how destructive that can become.