Does a Satanist/Luciferian first need to be a Christian?

[Sun Myung Moon]

I would say it is not necessary to be a this and that first, to be so would seem to hinder the individual and require a lot of reverse engineering and deprogramming (at least in my culture) and waste a lot of their handlers and the "converters" time in the process. I would say that one gravitates toward this or that or they don't, no "conversion" is necessary for those that know and don't have a sack of bricks on their back they are holding for someone else.
Overall, I agree to a degree, the complete immersion in a culture from birth till death does have an effect on some for that is the mold they were formed in and the meat grinder of "society" is a large one and has many colorful and flavourful casings for which the grinded and spiced meats fill.

 

[Anaryt]

i say yes you do have to be christian first.

i think that from being a christian you are brought into the world of jesus, God, and Satan. from this you see all sides. you see how God can be good, same with jesus and satan, and you can see how they can all be bad. so being a christian first will be beneficial if you are wanting to become a satanist.

 

[Zakolyev]

I a person can be a Christian without first being a Satanist then why not vice versa? I don't think a person needs to be a Christian before being a Satanist.

I think this most accurately points out the problem with this logic. One religion simply cannot be defined by another religion's standards. If it were, it would be a sub-facet of the defining religion, not a lone entity.

 

[MidnightSun]

I think that someone doesn't have to be Christian before being Satanist. They don't HAVE TO anyway. .

Sure, yes; generally.

But it's all so messed up, isn't it? Some say Lucifer isn't Satan, defying most who say they are the same being, then others remind us Lucifer was a Roman god and consort of Venus, the goddess of Love, then others say Freemasons worship Lucifer and if they do then they can't all be Christians, since they are not all Christians...etc etcetera....

Jews and Muslims have varying beliefs about Satan, he's in their Scriptures; but how can a belief in Satan/Lucifer be theistic when he is NOT A GOD? He is, as the Muslims, Jews and Christians say - a FALLEN ANGEL, that is a created being, not a god. Yet for him to be worshipped as God or a god, this would then mean that one would not have to be a Christian or believe in Christ, because their Scriptures don't support the idea of Lucifer/Satan as a deity. Right?

Basically, it's musing over questions like this that made a nonsense of Catholicism for me. Nothing adds up...

Paradise Lost and other Middle-Ages folk tales are more responsible for the identification of Lucifer with Satan than the oft-quoted passages in Isaiah.

But then the Roman Christians had already demonized him as the consort of the goddess, a pagan icon, so...it was perhaps natural to ID him as the Devil? OK, but the question remains; is that very Christian in essence?

So I guess, in closing, the answer is the same; generally if one puts Lucifer/Satan on the pedestal as a god or The God, then one would generally take his story from the Christian tradition, but not necessarily be a Christian.

Perhaps the best thing would be for Lucifer/Satan to be the archetypal God-figure in a new religion devoid of Abrahamic mythology.

Christians have it wrong.
Lucifer is not Satan.
Just had to say that. .

 

[MidnightSun]

Hello. Again. It's evolve2love.

I love this debate.

My reasoning goes like this.
-Lucifer is in the bible therefore you have to buy into the bible before you can buy into satan therefore you have to be a Christian to beleive in him.

Unless you think he's got enough support to make a seperate deity.

This cross-pollination between Witchcraft and Satanism is riduculous and quite frankly offensive to most Witches.
Historically Witches worship 2 deities -1 male, 1 female -they work in perfect harmony to make one God (ying-yang!) Personification of the male is the representation of the spark the female is like the light-bolb. Chicken and egg thing goin on there. HIstorically Christians tried to shame them into signing over by saying that to worship another God was to worship Satan therefore your God must be Satan. Don't you love logic? Anyway the DEMONISATION of Pagan male deities was another attempt in the popularity contest which had some quite catostrophic results.

Thank you. I'm not Wiccan but it's nice to see someone that knows Wicca has NOTHING to do with Satanism.

 

[Bawb]

No, my children are probably going to start out satanist, but idk after taht.

 

[joeycrosby]

I read a quote recently, although I can't recall where, that a [theistic] Satanist or Luciferian must first be a Christian.
Presumably because a belief in Satan and/or Lucifer goes hand in hand with a belief in God and probably Jesus too.

What are your thoughts on this idea?

No , but if your raised that way it is the toughest thing to remove from your avrage joe , In my mind , Satanist , were born that way , ment to be drawn to such things ,
sometimes , music, and lifestyles will bring you round too it , some will Question GOD , and others will embrace it , it all depends on where your ming gose with it , my just glad im not a homosexual . I dont understand that at all , but we have that stuff over here too , I think that area of the brain , their is a fine line , between sexuality , and sprituality , some where in their it teeter totters , ya or nay , I dont ming getting made up for the show , like the 80s glam bands do , and their not gay , but dont care much for men on men , I thought htat was for the altercall people , **** flock tot he church , and lots of times want to have children , another sick option , but it is Indvidual choices .. :slap:

 

[joeycrosby]

what good is a man with out a sprinkeling of enemys ,

 

[Xafwak]

Do I need to post the necromancy picture again?

 

[joeycrosby]

I read a quote recently, although I can't recall where, that a [theistic] Satanist or Luciferian must first be a Christian.
Presumably because a belief in Satan and/or Lucifer goes hand in hand with a belief in God and probably Jesus too.

What are your thoughts on this idea?

No , Satanist dont believe in the bible , or Satan , its is merly symbololic of the self , (satan) a Celibration of the self , and self only ..
I like to take people for a ride with the bible , it is fun to flert with contradictions , Fantacy Storys , or Virgin Birth , In the afterlife, id want to live it like i do now , Alone , with out god , or any one else , see you lator , Joey

 

[Octavia156]

But Lucifer also appears as a Per-Christian Roman God, so one doesn't not have to believe in the Bible, he does have enough support to be his own God. Though I will agree that must that believe in Lucifer be they Christian or Luciferians have him as an Christian type being(fallen angel and all).

Yes PRE PRE Christian! PRE ROMAN

It goes back further than Judism even!

Remember Abraham was a Sumerian. He chose to take one of the Sumerian Gods (Enlil - the Airy God of the Mountain) to worship.
Enlil (who became Jahova) was a jealous vengeful god who demanded service and sacrifice (didn;t he ask Abraham to sacrific Isaac on a mountain top to prove his alligence?)

What is important and often forgotten is that Enlil had a twin brother - Enki. Enki was the teacher and the initiator (light bringer) in Sumarian mythos.

Due to Abrahams shortsightedness(social psychosis!!) Enki was considered an enemy of Enlil and thus the story of the adversary was born. (Enlil was a jealous god after all)


All Setians/Satanists ought to look into the doctrine of Thelema (if you have not done so already)
Although Satanism is clearly a throw-back to Judeo-Christian dogma, it was not the first organisation to do so. Anton-le-Vey and M. Aqu's ideas are clearly highly inspired by Crowley's Thelemic philosophy. However instead of embracing it fully - satanism has been created - in which full responsibility is not completely taken because there's still the concept of a Prince of Darkness presiding over the universe.

I'm starting to see Satanism as a half-in half out religion - who's members aren't quite able to let go of the idea of a 'God' (Satan/Lucifer/Set or otherwise) and therefore aren't fully able to realise Human God-head.

Surely true Left-Hand Path requires one to completely negate the existance of a god, making man fully responsible for creation?

A belief in any God such as Satan/Set is in my view superstitious. Why is there a need for such a belief at all?

 

[Adramelek]

All Setians/Satanists ought to look into the doctrine of Thelema (if you have not done so already)
Although Satanism is clearly a throw-back to Judeo-Christian dogma, it was not the first organisation to do so. Anton-le-Vey and M. Aqu's ideas are clearly highly inspired by Crowley's Thelemic philosophy. However instead of embracing it fully - satanism has been created - in which full responsibility is not completely taken because there's still the concept of a Prince of Darkness presiding over the universe.

I'm starting to see Satanism as a half-in half out religion - who's members aren't quite able to let go of the idea of a 'God' (Satan/Lucifer/Set or otherwise) and therefore aren't fully able to realise Human God-head.

Surely true Left-Hand Path requires one to completely negate the existance of a god, making man fully responsible for creation?

A belief in any God such as Satan/Set is in my view superstitious. Why is there a need for such a belief at all?

My dearest Octavia, I'm not sure what documents you've been reading about Satanism/Setianism, but they seem to be the wrong ones or if they were the right ones you completely misunderstood them. Some of your ideas about the LHP are completely wrong. I'm at a loss.

/Adramelek\

 

[Octavia156]

My dearest Octavia, I'm not sure what documents you've been reading about Satanism/Setianism, but they seem to be the wrong ones or if they were the right ones you completely misunderstood them. Some of your ideas about the LHP are completely wrong. I'm at a loss.

/Adramelek\

Dear Brother

I've read nothing on Setianism but for your posts and others on this forum.

If I have misunderstood them then I am :sorry1: Perhaps I have gone too far off flex with this one.
My main issue is with the concept of a Will of Set - and the separateness of Man.

Thank you for your post - I was unaware that Setians recognised the Aeonic progression of Isis, Osiris and Horus... supplementing it with the New Aeon of Set.

Aha!

It makes more sense to me now... for before I thought Setianism had overlooked this progression. By acknowledging it and placing it in your cosmogamy it makes your system more valid in my ignorant eyes.

I compare you to Christians deliberately to press your buttons. I wish to see whether this has been considered... for when some LHP followers talk of Satan and Set they do sound superstitious! When there is the notion of worhsipping anything other than oneself I see a fallacy.

For me there is no God but Man. I acknowledge the existance of an Absolute - but this is beyond the realms of duality and separateness. By placing a line between man and God one can never know the absolute - therefore any notion of a Will that is separate from ones own will always be below the Abyss. Subsequently ANY notion of a God that is separate from oneself (as in Judeo-Christian) must be false.

I know you get this - I'm picking holes.
I've learned a lot about Setianism from your insightful threads. I am blown away by the similarities between Setianism and Thelema. I believe Thelema and the works of AC to be the main inspiration and therefore a direct root of both Satanism and Setianism.

I just can't get my head around why you would take a perfectly simple system and complicate it all over again!

Thelema took the responsibility of creation and placed it solely in the hands of man. Then Setianism places it partially back in the hands of an adversary.

I sincerely hope my ignorance causes no offense. I am finding debating with my LHP cousins is extremely useful in cementing my personal understanding of the path - I hope my posts are equally as stimulating.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Eep how did I miss this thread. In response to the OP and the question asked in the thread title I can only answer a resounding NO. I am a Satanist, and I have never held any sort of theistic belief for even a second. Christianity is irrelevant to Satanism.

 

[Adramelek]

Ave Octavia!

As in Satanism, the Setian is his/her own god-head. Set does not encourage or wish for us to worship him, this is repugnant to him. Rather, Set inspires us to Become the gods of our own Will as he is the one who enshrined within humanity the Will to Come Into Being. Set is more of a guide as the One who first Became the Master of his own Will, he is a source of encouragement for Xeper.

btw, I just sent you a new PM you might find interesting.

Xeper em Ma'at.
/Adramelek\

 

[InSorteDiaboli]

I think it is favorable to know of what you speak off and to know the flaws of many other religions. wether they be christian or Islamic and so on and so forth.

I do not believe it is supposed "required" or needed. But that it might enhance your understanding of that which is around you. Also detrimental that you understand the concept of the so called "Christ" and where his human creators drew the idea of him from. Such as the egyptian god Horus son of Osiris, The hindu god krisha And the god Mithra; all written BEFORE the scriptures of Christianity And all hold extreme similarites to the "Jesus" figure.

 

[Orias]

i say yes you do have to be christian first.

i think that from being a christian you are brought into the world of jesus, God, and Satan. from this you see all sides. you see how God can be good, same with jesus and satan, and you can see how they can all be bad. so being a christian first will be beneficial if you are wanting to become a satanist.

You have a point in the supernatural realm of things. You externalize deities that only exist in the mind. I believe the gods were created by the mind. I have never been raised around Christianity or Satanism, any religion for that matter. I knew nothing of any belief, I chose to study from pure interest. You are only acknowledging Satanists that believes in deities, while there is more logical and rational people.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Christianity is irrelevant to Satanism.

I have a respectful question.

Would it not be necessary for anyone who follows the left handed path to acknowledge that there is a God just as anyone who follows God would have to believe in Satan?

 

[darkendless]

I have a respectful question.

Would it not be necessary for anyone who follows the left handed path to acknowledge that there is a God just as anyone who follows God would have to believe in Satan?

Depends if you're theistic or atheistic satanism.

If you believe in the devil then i guess one would acknowledge God and satan. Some people may argue this though.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I have a respectful question.

Would it not be necessary for anyone who follows the left handed path to acknowledge that there is a God just as anyone who follows God would have to believe in Satan?

I acknowledge that there is a 'god' in the sense that he is a memeplex existent in the minds of billions of individuals. I recognize Satan in the same context.

As far as metaphysical entities are concerned, faith based beliefs are antithetical to Satanism as I understand it. Satanism is about the here and now, and undefiled wisdom through questioning all things. Including Satanism!