Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

[LightofTruth]

What do you mean by 'dry'? Ice is made of water, so that land is covered with water. Some of that water will be liquid, so that land will largely be wet.

I would think that the ice, if melted, would expose dry land.

 

[LightofTruth]

As with poly, I am not totally clear what you mean.
I am guessing a reference to "the flood".

There is no simple answer, unless it is to say, "Well,
you cant be looking for fossils underwater.

If you drill an oil well in Kansas, you will get little
pieces of seashells, from hundreds of feet underground.

Yeah, the water has long since receded from Kansas.
Those are marine fossils, of cretaceous age. There
was an inland sea, with giant sea turtles nesting on
the beach in Wyoming, 60 ft crocodiles lurking about.

That sea is long since gone, that which got
buried in sand or mud got fossilized, and
most of the life disappeared with no
trace. A typical setting for fossils to form would
be in a shallow bay,or in a river delta where
sediments will be brought in and sink to the
bottom.

Since our fossil of a sea dragon (Mososaur)
was buried 70 million years ago or so,
the rocky mountains started rising and eroding
so that a vast sediment plume spread out
across the prairie and buried the old seafloor.

Historical geology is actually pretty interesting.
The landscape really comes alive if you
have even a little understanding of what
you are looking at. The landscape can be
read, but you have to know how to read!

I not thinking of the Noah flood. I'm interested in the idea of dry land being surrounded by water then quickly
frozen. It would seem to me a the perfect condition for fossils to form

 

[Polymath257]

I would think that the ice, if melted, would expose dry land.

ice, when it melts, makes the land wet.

 

[Audie]

Isn't there dry land under ice caps?

What do you mean by 'dry'? Ice is made of water, so that land is covered with water. Some of that water will be liquid, so that land will largely be wet.

Hee hee. One creationist told me that the antarctic
ice survived "the flood" because it is frozen to the rock!

I calculated the buoyancy of one square foot of ice
5000ft thick.

He did not like the results, so decided that the ice had
floated, but stayed in place because of circumpolar current,
and then settled back down in place.
"Right down over every mountain and into each valley?"

The talk did not last long after that.

I will though give him credit for at least occasionally
attempting to think.

 

[Polymath257]

I not thinking of the Noah flood. I'm interested in the idea of dry land being surrounded by water then quickly
frozen. It would seem to me a the perfect condition for fossils to form

Not likely to happen. The amount of energy required to 'quickly freeze' is immense. You might see some 'fast frozen' situations where an animal falls in a mountainous pass and into an icy crevasse, but not in other cases.

And we have fossils from desert regions and under water. Those are NOT 'quickly frozen' areas. Your scenario would be exceedingly rare, although it has the possibility of preserving soft tissues for 'short' periods of time (tens of thousands of years).

For longer times, the bones have to be replaced by other minerals as part of the fossilization process. This is neither fast nor guaranteed to happen.

 

[LightofTruth]

ice, when it melts, makes the land wet.

The addition of water, then ice, to dry land would make the dry land wet.

 

[Audie]

I not thinking of the Noah flood. I'm interested in the idea of dry land being surrounded by water then quickly
frozen. It would seem to me a the perfect condition for fossils to form

All land is surrounded by water. Are you thinking
of a small island?

Um, quickly frozen? How fast do you have in mind?
And, btw, "frozen" means not just the temperature,
but a cessation of movement.
Freeze everything, and when you thaw it, you are
back where you started, more or less.
Fossils form when things are buried in mud / sand /
volcanic ash.

The frozen mammoths and other such had to bet
buried after they froze. In the arctic, decay is quite
slow,but most if not all of the carcasses emit as
one put it, "a sickening stench" when thawed.

So they spent time decaying and being scavenged
before freezing.

And a very few of those managed to get buried
and preserved.

 

[Audie]

The addition of water, then ice, to dry land would make the dry land wet.

Uh, ice caps form from snow. The water at the
base of some glaciers is a result of pressure
or other conditions long after the glacier formed.

Are you asking questions try to work
toward some pre conceived idea you have?

 

[Polymath257]

The addition of water, then ice, to dry land would make the dry land wet.

You do realize that ice is water in the solid state, right?

 

[LightofTruth]

Hee hee. One creationist told me that the antarctic
ice survived "the flood" because it is frozen to the rock!

I calculated the buoyancy of one square foot of ice
5000ft thick.

He did not like the results, so decided that the ice had
floated, but stayed in place because of circumpolar current,
and then settled back down in place.
"Right down over every mountain and into each valley?"

The talk did not last long after that.

I will though give him credit for at least occasionally
attempting to think.

If the sun's light does not appear everything would eventually freeze.

 

[Polymath257]

If the sun's light does not appear everything would eventually freeze.

Yes, if things cool down, water will freeze. Do you have any evidence of this happening within the last, say, 500 million years?

And are you suggesting that the sun varied in its output? if so, I'd suggest looking at how stars work to see the plausibility of that and the effects.

 

[LightofTruth]

Yes, if things cool down, water will freeze. Do you have any evidence of this happening within the last, say, 500 million years?

And are you suggesting that the sun varied in its output? if so, I'd suggest looking at how stars work to see the plausibility of that and the effects.

The Scripture says that the earth became surrounded by water and the sun's light did not appear. this was before the Noah flood. It would have happened after there were inhabitants on the earth. The formation of the earth into how we know it today would have been caused by the sun's light becoming visible from earth. The forming of the earth was a separation of the dry land under the water from the water so that the dry land would appear. Anything that was frozen would remain frozen due to the surrounding temperature.

 

[LightofTruth]

Yes, if things cool down, water will freeze. Do you have any evidence of this happening within the last, say, 500 million years?

And are you suggesting that the sun varied in its output? if so, I'd suggest looking at how stars work to see the plausibility of that and the effects.

I'm suggesting that the freezing of the earth could have happened any number of years ago and could have remained that way for a very long time.

 

[Polymath257]

I'm suggesting that the freezing of the earth could have happened any number of years ago and could have remained that way for a very long time.

Rather vague. Care to give specifics? How about evidence?

Are you claiming this all was the source of all fossils? Or did it happen before life? Did it stop recently? If so, how recently?

Could there have been a period where there was a 'snowball Earth'? Sure.

Was that the cause of all fossils? No way. Was it linked directly to the rise of humans? No. Did evolution happen before/during/ and after it? Yes.

 

[Polymath257]

The Scripture says that the earth became surrounded by water and the sun's light did not appear. this was before the Noah flood. It would have happened after there were inhabitants on the earth. The formation of the earth into how we know it today would have been caused by the sun's light becoming visible from earth. The forming of the earth was a separation of the dry land under the water from the water so that the dry land would appear. Anything that was frozen would remain frozen due to the surrounding temperature.

Well this certainly didn't happen over the last 500 million years or so. The sun has been 'visible' for the last 5 billion years or so--even before the Earth.

Do you consider bacteria to be 'inhabitants'? or do you only include macroscopic animals? Are only people?

When you say the Earth was 'surrounded by water', you realize the Earth is spherical, right? So you are claiming that there was only one continent? Well, we know of times when *that* was the case, but during the most recent time like that it was *hot*, not cold.

 

[Audie]

If the sun's light does not appear everything would eventually freeze.

And if it exploded all would not be well.

What point are you trying to work toward?

 

[LightofTruth]

Well this certainly didn't happen over the last 500 million years or so. The sun has been 'visible' for the last 5 billion years or so--even before the Earth.

Do you consider bacteria to be 'inhabitants'? or do you only include macroscopic animals? Are only people?

When you say the Earth was 'surrounded by water', you realize the Earth is spherical, right? So you are claiming that there was only one continent? Well, we know of times when *that* was the case, but during the most recent time like that it was *hot*, not cold.

Clouds carry evaporated water and cause rain to fall. That water is the water above the earth.If it is cloudy enough then the sun is not visible through the clouds. if there was enough water above the earth and remained there it would become very cold on the earth. And if the earth was surrounded by water, this condition would casuse freezing of the earth.

 

[Polymath257]

You might be interested in this article on the snowball Earth:

Snowball Earth - Wikipedia

 

[Howard Is]

Let me know when you can prove the non-existence of an intelligent creator.

Can you prove the non-existence of my etheric antennae ? Or my ancestors from Sirius and the Pleiades ?

 

[Polymath257]

Clouds carry evaporated water and cause rain to fall. That water is the water above the earth.If it is cloudy enough then the sun is not visible through the clouds. if there was enough water above the earth and remained there it would become very cold on the earth. And if the earth was surrounded by water, this condition would casuse freezing of the earth.

Actually, no. Having a significant cloud cover would be more likely to trap greenhouse gases and produce a *hotter* planet, not a colder one. See what happened to the planet Venus for an example.

To produce a *cold* planet, you need to *reduce* the cloud cover.