Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

[Polymath257]

According to your source, there are working Ph.D biologists who think that there has been no evolution at all, since the beginning of time. I’m having some trouble picturing what kind of work in biology they could possibly be doing.

And that is one aspect of this. EVERY field of study has its kooks and crackpots, even ones with PhDs. That is why I really don't worry about those with percentages lower than around 5%, and especially not if the percentages are lower than 1%. That us about the level of percentages you get for crackpots. You see them in math also.

 

[Audie]

@Audie I forgot, I wanted to point out that in the survey above, in answer to a question that required choosing between evolution due to natural processes, and evolution guided by a supreme being, the number of working Ph.D biomedical scientists who chose “guided by a supreme being” had a weight of 6%.

Within that, I would be interested to know what they
mean by "guided".

Like-"god" set up the universe in such a way that
life on earth and other such planets would inevitably
arise? Like if you make sodium and chlorine, they
will mate and make NaCl in a fiery honeymoon, then
settle down to make nice cubic crystals?

OR, is this a god who meddles and tinkers,
maybe sends cosmic rays to zap molecules
just so? Or sets off volcanoes or ice
ages to separate populations so they
will speciate? Distracts a leopard with
a tasty antelope sos he wont eat this
particularly promising hominid?

Kind of a goofy way to think.

Since you like figuring this stuff, see
if you can find out what "guided" means

 

[Subduction Zone]

According to your source, there are working Ph.D biologists who think that there has been no evolution at all, since the beginning of time. I’m having some trouble picturing what kind of work in biology they could possibly be doing.

The answer is "not much". Or they could be working for ICR or other such sources. One has to swear not to use the scientific method to work at those places which is one reason that their work is almost always laughed at. I can't remember any serious articles by those deniers of sciences.

 

[Audie]

According to your source, there are working Ph.D biologists who think that there has been no evolution at all, since the beginning of time. I’m having some trouble picturing what kind of work in biology they could possibly be doing.

Ifn you was a biologist it would not be so hard to
think of things.
Fisheries science in no way requires anything
about evolution You could be a agricultural
entomologist just fine. On and on.

The only place they would get in trouble would
be if they started trying to do "research" that
involved magic.

 

[Audie]

The answer is "not much". Or they could be working for ICR or other such sources. One has to swear not to use the scientific method to work at those places which is one reason that their work is almost always laughed at. I can't remember any serious articles by those deniers of sciences.

We sees you isnt no biologist either

 

[Subduction Zone]

And that is one aspect of this. EVERY field of study has its kooks and crackpots, even ones with PhDs. That is why I really don't worry about those with percentages lower than around 5%, and especially not if the percentages are lower than 1%. That us about the level of percentages you get for crackpots. You see them in math also.

Please explain the electric universe to me

 

[Subduction Zone]

We sees you isnt no biologist either

Hey! I took high school biology

 

[Audie]

So precious that you rely on decades old ICR essays and references to an 1859 book for your whole 'whales from bears' routine.

As sad as it is expected of internet creationists.

You want to deprivate the poor creo of anything they
could use?
I mean, they dont get to use the rack and the
witches chair or even thumbscrews and more!

 

[Audie]

Hey! I took high school biology

didnt do ya much good. Name for me a
job in biology that cannot be done just fine
by someone who does not believe in evolution.

 

[Subduction Zone]

didnt do ya much good. Name for me a
job in biology that cannot be done just fine
by someone who does not believe in evolution.

High school biology teacher.

 

[Audie]

High school biology teacher.

Nonsense. (that is not really a job in biology btw)

Do you know what they teach in HS Bio?
I dont.*
But, I do know that there are plenty of preachers
who dont believe a word of what they are saying.

If a person wants a job, and the job sez preach, or
have your kids hear about evolution, then ya
preach or get a shopping cart and some plastic sheeting.

*I looked at a HS text maybe five yrs ago and it
was so stupid, so much bad info I could not
stand to look at it

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nonsense. (that is not really a job in biology btw)

Do you know what they teach in HS Bio?
I dont.*
But, I do know that there are plenty of preachers
who dont believe a word of what they are saying.

If a person wants a job, and the job sez preach, or
have your kids hear about evolution, then ya
preach or get a shopping cart and some plastic sheeting.

*I looked at a HS text maybe five yrs ago and it
was so stupid, so much bad info I could not
stand to look at it

Even in high school biology evolution is part of the curriculum. And as you know from your experience here, creationists do not tend to be the most honest of people. I cannot see them teaching the class accurately any more than a Flat Earth Physicist could teach physics.

 

[Audie]

Even in high school biology evolution is part of the curriculum. And as you know from your experience here, creationists do not tend to be the most honest of people. I cannot see them teaching the class accurately any more than a Flat Earth Physicist could teach physics.

In America, teachers on the high school level are not
very well educated.

In Ca, they do or used to have the CBEST,
california basic education skills test. An
acquaintance told me of taking it when he
was so sick with hepatitis he barely made it
to the test center, and of the three sections
(math, readin' writin' or something) his score
went down many points from one to the next
as he got too tired. Even so, he scored well
above the minimum. And commented that
the test was so simple...
So imagine "teachers" who could not pass that.
They had to institute that test because so many
were so incompetent.

Most american hs teachers seem to just
teach to the test, from the book very formulaic.

So what if our creofriend does a bad job of
teaching evolution? He probably would be
no worse than those who do.

Now, give this up and gimme a job that you cant
do in biol if you is a creo.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In America, teachers on the high school level are not
very well educated.

In Ca, they do or used to have the CBEST,
california basic education skills test. An
acquaintance told me of taking it when he
was so sick with hepatitis he barely made it
to the test center, and of the three sections
(math, readin' writin' or something) his score
went down many points from one to the next
as he got too tired. Even so, he scored well
above the minimum. And commented that
the test was so simple...
So imagine "teachers" who could not pass that.
They had to institute that test because so many
were so incompetent.

Most american hs teachers seem to just
teach to the test, from the book very formulaic.

So what if our creofriend does a bad job of
teaching evolution? He probably would be
no worse than those who do.

Now, give this up and gimme a job that you cant
do in biol if you is a creo.

I have no doubt that what you claim is correct. I once met a young man going to college to be a high school physics teacher. I was shocked that understanding calculus was not part of the curriculum. The problem with not understanding calculus in physics is that it makes it memory work more than anything else. One cannot understand how the different formula relate to each other.

But if you insist I could simply change my job to college biology instructor. Now I suppose they could have the biological equivalent of "Rocks for Jocks" that some schools have and almost anyone could teach it, but to teach a course properly it really does help if one understands it. Over the years I found that I went to a high school that was well above average. The few bad teachers were a well known joke, but they could be easily avoided since they also tended to be football coaches. One taught PE and one was a history teacher. I take that back. the history teacher was not so easy to avoid. He had the tendency to grade people on how long their answers were in essay tests. This was known by his students. Many of them took advantage of it. Right after one test he had a massive stroke and died. A friend of mine was scared to death since he wrote the complete lyrics to American Pie in his test. It did not take the replacement teacher any time to realize what was going on and all old grades were thrown out without any punishment to students. The slackers hated this. My friend was relieved and those of us that were not slackers did better.

 

[Jose Fly]

I'll tell you what. You go and design a survey that covers the information you want and then go and administer it. If the results are significantly different than what I claimed, I will admit that I am wrong.

Exactly. Jim's objection seems to be that the survey questions didn't include every possible combination of belief and science. Since that's the case with every such survey, his complaint rings a little hollow.

 

[Audie]

I have no doubt that what you claim is correct. I once met a young man going to college to be a high school physics teacher. I was shocked that understanding calculus was not part of the curriculum. The problem with not understanding calculus in physics is that it makes it memory work more than anything else. One cannot understand how the different formula relate to each other.

But if you insist I could simply change my job to college biology instructor. Now I suppose they could have the biological equivalent of "Rocks for Jocks" that some schools have and almost anyone could teach it, but to teach a course properly it really does help if one understands it. Over the years I found that I went to a high school that was well above average. The few bad teachers were a well known joke, but they could be easily avoided since they also tended to be football coaches. One taught PE and one was a history teacher. I take that back. the history teacher was not so easy to avoid. He had the tendency to grade people on how long their answers were in essay tests. This was known by his students. Many of them took advantage of it. Right after one test he had a massive stroke and died. A friend of mine was scared to death since he wrote the complete lyrics to American Pie in his test. It did not take the replacement teacher any time to realize what was going on and all old grades were thrown out without any punishment to students. The slackers hated this. My friend was relieved and those of us that were not slackers did better.

]

I do not make "claims" and I am correct.

When I arrived in the US and started middle
school It was not long before I told Mom that
I was like three years ahead of my classmates,
if not more-they actually make you study in Hong
Kong.

So that was not working out! She had me out of
that school pretty fast.

As near as I can tell, they do not teach science
at all in American public schools. It is memorize
memorize. No idea how to relate any of it to
the actual world around, just how to pass a test.

No idea where the data, concepts came from,
nothing at all that is actual science. Maybe
it gets better in some state run colleges, maybe
not.

In the event, I think you are now satisfied that
lo and many a job in biology could be done by
a creationist, with no particular problems.

 

[Polymath257]

I have no doubt that what you claim is correct. I once met a young man going to college to be a high school physics teacher. I was shocked that understanding calculus was not part of the curriculum. The problem with not understanding calculus in physics is that it makes it memory work more than anything else. One cannot understand how the different formula relate to each other.

But if you insist I could simply change my job to college biology instructor. Now I suppose they could have the biological equivalent of "Rocks for Jocks" that some schools have and almost anyone could teach it, but to teach a course properly it really does help if one understands it. Over the years I found that I went to a high school that was well above average. The few bad teachers were a well known joke, but they could be easily avoided since they also tended to be football coaches. One taught PE and one was a history teacher. I take that back. the history teacher was not so easy to avoid. He had the tendency to grade people on how long their answers were in essay tests. This was known by his students. Many of them took advantage of it. Right after one test he had a massive stroke and died. A friend of mine was scared to death since he wrote the complete lyrics to American Pie in his test. It did not take the replacement teacher any time to realize what was going on and all old grades were thrown out without any punishment to students. The slackers hated this. My friend was relieved and those of us that were not slackers did better.

Thanks for that. Now I will be singing that to myself for *days*.

 

[Jim]

Since you like figuring this stuff, see if you can find out what "guided" means.

Thank you! My forum gods never fail me.

“A supreme being guided the evolution of living things for the purpose of creating humans and other life in the form it exists today.” According to Polymath’s source, the weighted percentage of working Ph.D biologists preferring that answer over “natural processes.” was 6%.

 

[Jim]

It seems that the more we learn as scientific and archaeological finds come to light, the less people believe in Evolution. Scientist and Darwinism tell us that life on earth evolved gradually beginning with one primitive species, their not really sure how, and it made new and diverse species.

“Evolution” means different things to different people and in different contexts. It looks to me like what you mean by it here is “humans and all other species all have common ancestors in one or a few microscopic species that lived millions of years ago.” I don’t see any reason to think that people believe that now any less than ever before. There might be more questioning now about precisely how that happened, but not about whether it’s true or not.

 

[Audie]

Thank you! My forum gods never fail me.

“A supreme being guided the evolution of living things for the purpose of creating humans and other life in the form it exists today.” According to Polymath’s source, the weighted percentage of working Ph.D biologists preferring that answer over “natural processes.” was 6%.

Sorry-ah but that is a total so-what.