Does being against Zionism make you anti-semetic?

[LuisDantas]

as for being 'liked', millions of Jews have been murdered, millions of others have lost their families and property, trust me, we are way past the trying to be liked phase.

Surely there is no need for the Jewish people to settle for a permanent warlike situation as the best they can ever obtain. Peaceful convivence is worth aiming for. And I see no reason why it can't be attained.

the equation is very simple. the state of Israel was established more than 60 years ago, it has withstood a great ammount of challenges from a harsh and uncompromising region and was still able to emerge from it as a nation with impressive traits in technology, science and medicine in an area which is a failed region at large.

No argument there. Still, so much blood was lost during those years. Perhaps even worse, so much hatred was bred on both sides. It was a pyrrhic victory at best. Impressive, but rather painful.

it has created a diverse social landscape which goes against the traditional opressive nature of the nations around it, with a multi-party political system as opposed to the dictatorships around it, who like Israel have also been crafted in modern times.

True enough. But do you believe that the current situation is conductive to a permanent peace? Is Israel somehow inspiring neaby nations to be less warlike? Is it inspiring them to be more warlike instead?

Perhaps more to the point, is it indeed best for the Jewish people to live in Israel as opposed to so many other nations where they are safe and respected? Here in Brazil, at least, the Jewish communities are certainly small, but also well-established and under no danger to speak of. At worst, they have to deal with the same attempts at converting them to Christianity and Islam that everyone else meets once in a while.

Maybe even more to the point, I wonder if the goal of a Jewish State wasn't mishandled from its start back in the 1940s. Everyone knew and expected for an armed conflict already in the first day of Israel's existence, and once the guns have began firing, people are not at all likely to want to seek a peaceful solution. That is basic human nature. Far too many people, both Palestinian and Jewish, have suffered already. It is far past time to make a decisive effort to seek other ways of settling the differences.

 

[Caladan]

Surely there is no need for the Jewish people to settle for a permanent warlike situation as the best they can ever obtain. Peaceful convivence is worth aiming for. And I see no reason why it can't be attained.

For the most part the citizens of Israel do live in a remarkable peaceful convenience when we measure the security threats. Israeli citizens fulfill themselves academically, in leisure and in society and people who visit Israel are amazed at the sense of security as opposed to the unproportionate media attention. I would say that Israel for example, is much much safer than your nation which is ripe with crime.

True enough. But do you believe that the current situation is conductive to a permanent peace? Is Israel somehow inspiring neaby nations to be less warlike? Is it inspiring them to be more warlike instead?

The nations around Israel need to take responsibility for regional stability and stop exploiting the Palestinians as a political card. Israel is not responsible for any middle eastern dictatorship, and for a population which is ripe with fundamentalism as it is.

Perhaps more to the point, is it indeed best for the Jewish people to live in Israel as opposed to so many other nations where they are safe and respected? Here in Brazil, at least, the Jewish communities are certainly small, but also well-established and under no danger to speak of. At worst, they have to deal with the same attempts at converting them to Christianity and Islam that everyone else meets once in a while.

Jewish communities have usually done good for themselves, but not all communities have been as lucky as in Brazil, in any case, like I said the alternative of living as a minority in another nation does not sound appealing, if the Japanese have Japan, the British have the UK, the Germans have Germany, there is no reason that we should question another people's quest for self determination, hardly surprising after the world has proved it does not have the maturity to accomodate this minority, and other minorities.

Maybe even more to the point, I wonder if the goal of a Jewish State wasn't mishandled from its start back in the 1940s. Everyone knew and expected for an armed conflict already in the first day of Israel's existence, and once the guns have began firing, people are not at all likely to want to seek a peaceful solution. That is basic human nature. Far too many people, both Palestinian and Jewish, have suffered already. It is far past time to make a decisive effort to seek other ways of settling the differences.

There have been ongoing negotiations, Israel has striked peace treaties with Jordan and Egypt- one of the most important Arab states. political solutions take time and are part of a long and painful process, the majority of people in Israel and as far as I know in the Palestinian side support the negotiations, so having people seeking other ways to settle the difference is not new.

 

[arimoff]

I think normal self respecting Jews shouldn't visit this thread, it is stupid. To read why do Jews need a state why do they need a home or they stole someones home. Why is anybody better to have their country and we don't? Why can't just people leave us alone? don't bother us because we don't bother you, let us live the way we want on a strip of land smaller then New Jersey. Honestly speaking the UN should really be embarrassed of them selfs, bunch of loosers, as much as Jews don't for this world and as much as we got back for it, is really not worth it, a world full of animals.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think normal self respecting Jews shouldn't visit this thread, it is stupid. To read why do Jews need a state why do they need a home or they stole someones home. Why is anybody better to have their country and we don't? Why can't just people leave us alone? don't bother us because we don't bother you, let us live the way we want on a strip of land smaller then New Jersey. Honestly speaking the UN should really be embarrassed of them selfs, bunch of loosers, as much as Jews don't for this world and as much as we got back for it, is really not worth it, a world full of animals.

Is this thread that "stupid", or are you just frustrated that you've no convincing argument for Israel's theft & brutality? Leaving you alone,
as you suggest, would be fine a fine idea except for the fact that Zionists don't leave us alone. Your lobby has the US enforcing your
security at great cost, both to the taxpayers & to those whose land Israel stole. It is a source of anger in the Islamic world & this makes
it our business. We will comment on it regardless of your objections.

 

[LuisDantas]

Self respecting Jews probably have an interest in knowing why and to what degree there are people that may oppose Zionism. If for no other reason, so that they may present their case and defend their own position.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Arimoff is getting all defensive for Zionism now, LOL. You say Jews like all Jews support your state of Israel. I want nothing to do with your state of Israel. It's an unholy land built on violence and bloodlust, and no true self-respecting Jew would want any part in it. You can have Israel, this Jew is staying in America.

 

[Levite]

...It's an unholy land built on violence and bloodlust, and no true self-respecting Jew would want any part in it. You can have Israel, this Jew is staying in America.

I disagree entirely.

Therefore, it is probably just as well that you remain in America for your reasons, as I remain in America for mine-- which include working here for the support of the State of Israel.

 

[Azakel]

Arimoff is getting all defensive for Zionism now, LOL. You say Jews like all Jews support your state of Israel. I want nothing to do with your state of Israel. It's an unholy land built on violence and bloodlust, and no true self-respecting Jew would want any part in it. You can have Israel, this Jew is staying in America.

America is also built and Violence and blood lust, so you might has well leave here to. We don't have a right to exist.

 

[Tanuki]

Why do we keep using this term anti-semitic? Most Zionists are anti-semitic since they daily speak against Arabs!

It's an over used phrase by a people who obviously have an inferiority complex.

 

[Mr Cheese]

The temple can only be built by God; any temple built by man will fall

--the Torah (paraphrased)

'nuff said...imo

 

[Levite]

the Torah (paraphrased)

...incorrectly.

 

[Mr Cheese]

...incorrectly.

really? so the torah doesnt state any temple built by man will fall?



Of course dressing like you're a 12th century european jew in the desert is somethign I find hilarious also

But then costumes are silly imo....

be they Jewish, Christian, wiccan, satanist or whatever

 

[Arkholt]

The only way for "anti-Zionist" to equal "anti-Semite" is for "Zionist" to equal "Jew." Not all Jews are Zionists, plain and simple. Therefore, being anti-Zionist is not to be anti-Semitic.

I'm against people killing people. There are people killing people over there. If they're Zionists, then I'm anti-Zionist. If they're something else, then I'm anti-them. I don't care who they are. I'd rather they not kill each other. Do all Jews kill each other? No. Then I'm not anti-Semitic.

 

[MissAlice]

Do I support the state of Israel or the movement in which it was propagated? No.

Do I hate Jewish people or even the people of modern Israel? No, it's been some odd generations since this happened. I guess a good argument could be made of the Europeans who not only stole but killed many of the original American inhabitants. I do not support what happened even though my ancestors may have had something to do with the genocide of the Indians. I don't see what good it is to support a regime that kicked its inhabitants out of its country but I also don't see what good it is to take the anger out of a people who were born into it.

 

[Levite]

really? so the torah doesnt state any temple built by man will fall?

Citation please?

Of course dressing like you're a 12th century european jew in the desert is somethign I find hilarious also

In the desert or in Brooklyn, equally ridiculous. Which has what to do about the price of fish?

 

[Caladan]

In the desert or in Brooklyn, equally ridiculous. Which has what to do about the price of fish?

Expect a flood of pseudo-mystical quotation for clarity.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Expect a flood of pseudo-mystical quotation for clarity.

yawn...that the best you got mr hottie?

I mean this (Jews in 12th century european costumes, in the desert, I hear they are a bit smelly, unsurprisingly, wearing that get up in those temperatures..)

etc.

I actually liek the costumes, a lot...I think it brings back some racial memory of a past life lol

However fanaticism is fanaticism, be it Jewish, Israeli, Palestine< Glaswegian or Dutch.....

Of course I could take actual religious views also....but whats the point..this clearly isnt the place for such things! ironically