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Does Christmas have anything to do with Christ?

Does Xmas (Christmas) have anything to do with Christ?

  • Total voters
    165
  • Poll closed .
The Hammer

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
Hispriest said:
Aside from its pagan elements, most people understand that Christmas celebrates the birth of Jesus. But in practice, people spend more time in December cruising shopping malls than studying the life of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Frosty the Snowman and Rudolf the Red-nosed Reindeer compete with wise men and shepherds for our attention. During all the bustle between “Black Friday” and Christmas Eve, materialism tends to overshadow the simple stable.
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I'll stick with my pagan ceremonies, thanks :). Burn a Yule log, celebrate joyously with my family, and do a ceremony to recognize the rebirth of the sun, as we begin to pull out of winters cold shadow.
 
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MikeSavage

Active Member
sincerly said:
Bible S., The above isn't scripturally true. Paul in addressing the 1Corinthians (11:22-29) concerning the Communion supper acknowledged that it was for/by the congregation as a whole.

"""What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."""
Your posted scriptures are true, but your conclusive applications are false.
Paul wrote in that same book(10:6, 11) and Rom.15:4 That what was written is for examples, admonition, and learning by US.
Jesus(nor GOD the Father) is not a respecter of persons. Your Site is wrong in its conclusions.
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Every word spoken by Jesus the night before he was killed was addressed to those who were annointed. Not the congregation as a whole, or rather not those in the congregation who were not annointed. That supper didn't happen in a congregation meeting, but it was with Jesus, his apostles, and some disciples.
 
sincerly

sincerly

Well-Known Member
sincerly said: ↑
Bible S., You have not countered the belief of Three "Wise men" and, actually, have stated--- admitted that the number isn't known.
The Queen of Sheba and her gifts are a non-sequitur as far as the "they" gifts are concerned.
Nor does the narrative of the "wise men's" visit invalidate the Birth of Jesus. The day of it is still unknown for sure.

Because there were three gifts and "they" gave them, doesn't mean anything in the Salvation of mankind. The purpose of the Birth is/was to seek and save lost mankind.

Bible Student said:
No.
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Bible S., Jesus said(Luke 19:10), "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."
 
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MikeSavage

Active Member
sincerly said:
sincerly said: ↑
Bible S., You have not countered the belief of Three "Wise men" and, actually, have stated--- admitted that the number isn't known.
The Queen of Sheba and her gifts are a non-sequitur as far as the "they" gifts are concerned.
Nor does the narrative of the "wise men's" visit invalidate the Birth of Jesus. The day of it is still unknown for sure.

Because there were three gifts and "they" gave them, doesn't mean anything in the Salvation of mankind. The purpose of the Birth is/was to seek and save lost mankind.



Bible S., Jesus said(Luke 19:10), "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."
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Since those "Magi" didn't pay Jesus a visit just after he was born, what's the point in arguing with Bible Student? They weren't wise men either, they were essentially astrologers. Advisors to a pagan.
 
sincerly

sincerly

Well-Known Member
MikeSavage said:
Every word spoken by Jesus the night before he was killed was addressed to those who were annointed. Not the congregation as a whole, or rather not those in the congregation who were not annointed. That supper didn't happen in a congregation meeting, but it was with Jesus, his apostles, and some disciples.
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Mike, that's what you(or the governing body) wants to believe, but Passover wasn't a private gathering, but all of GOD'S people gathered in their groups to celebrate GOD'S power to deliver.
Those with Jesus had not been anointed by the Holy Spirit and one (the betrayer) was there as well as Peter who needed still to be converted.
However, that group was given the commission to Go and teach the whatsoever I have told you. Therefore, what was expressed to them they were to give to others. The invitation to the plan of salvation is general and the Kingdom of GOD is open to All. The "governing body" has no power to deny any of GOD'S principles.
 
Ingledsva

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
The Hammer said:
I'll stick with my pagan ceremonies, thanks :). Burn a Yule log, celebrate joyously with my family, and do a ceremony to recognize the rebirth of the sun, as we begin to pull out of winters cold shadow.
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Me too! Family, friends, parties, - the decorating and lighting of my Yule tree. (Those lights representing the return of the light.) I love this time of year.

Consumerism just wrecks it for most people. I have spoken to so many stressed out Christians. They were stressed that they were expected to reciprocate in the gift giving, but had no money.

Or they had to prepare a dinner, with no money to buy even the turkey. Or their kids had been watching the "BUY" commercials for months, and had a huge list of things they wanted, but what they were actually going to get was clothes, because they didn't want them going to school in torn clothing, and didn't have money for both.

The commercialism really needs to be taken out of the season. People are putting themselves in deep debt to make others temporarily happy.

*
 
M

MikeSavage

Active Member
sincerly said:
Mike, that's what you(or the governing body) wants to believe, but Passover wasn't a private gathering, but all of GOD'S people gathered in their groups to celebrate GOD'S power to deliver.
Those with Jesus had not been anointed by the Holy Spirit and one (the betrayer) was there as well as Peter who needed still to be converted.
However, that group was given the commission to Go and teach the whatsoever I have told you. Therefore, what was expressed to them they were to give to others. The invitation to the plan of salvation is general and the Kingdom of GOD is open to All. The "governing body" has no power to deny any of GOD'S principles.
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You have a paramount desire to cling to what your religion teaches you. Look at the scriptures themselves, their context, and what they say. Remove the filter of religion. Only Jesus' apostles and some disciples were present when they were annointed that night. It was to them that he was speaking. What's this "conversion" business? What Jesus began, was the "Christian Congregation" and the covenant (contract) that replaced the law covenant that Israel had been living under. And by the way, the governing body does not tell us what to believe. The Bible does that. You have a prejudice given you by your religion. The witnesses for God are the same original Christian Congregation that Jesus began over two thousand years ago. They are not religion, as Jesus started what he said was "the one true faith", and not, once again, a religion.
 
sincerly

sincerly

Well-Known Member
MikeSavage said:
Since those "Magi" didn't pay Jesus a visit just after he was born, what's the point in arguing with Bible Student? They weren't wise men either, they were essentially astrologers. Advisors to a pagan.
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Mike, you know the "beliefs" of the "governing body" and this discussion is just the "tip of the iceberg". The Scriptures identified them as "wise men" and they did visit and "worship" Jesus.
 
M

MikeSavage

Active Member
sincerly said:
Mike, you know the "beliefs" of the "governing body" and this discussion is just the "tip of the iceberg". The Scriptures identified them as "wise men" and they did visit and "worship" Jesus.
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In the sense that the governing body of the society believes the scriptures, the same as I do, then yes, you are correct. They do not dictate what to believe to anyone. They have no doctrine their own, any doctrine is strictly from the scriptures. It's
God's doctrine. They function the same way as the apostles of Jesus did, in acting as elders, or a governing body of the original Christian congregation, of which we are a part today.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The 'Magi', being the first to anoint Jeshua, are not supposed to be viewed negatively, as 'pagans' opposed to Xianity, that's ridiculous. In fact one of the 'issues' here is that the divinity from birth is different from the 'divinity from Johns baptism' scenario that is sometimes presented. You can't really have a 'normal carpenter Rabbi' who is worshipped at birth, hence the 'problem' of the Magi for "humanistic Jesus" xians.
 
The Hammer

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
Ingledsva said:
Me too! Family, friends, parties, - the decorating and lighting of my Yule tree. (Those lights representing the return of the light.) I love this time of year.

Consumerism just wrecks it for most people. I have spoken to so many stressed out Christians. They were stressed that they were expected to reciprocate in the gift giving, but had no money.

Or they had to prepare a dinner, with no money to buy even the turkey. Or their kids had been watching the "BUY" commercials for months, and had a huge list of things they wanted, but what they were actually going to get was clothes, because they didn't want them going to school in torn clothing, and didn't have money for both.

The commercialism really needs to be taken out of the season. People are putting themselves in deep debt to make others temporarily happy.

*
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Yeah, the consumerism is really a huge problem. I don't ask for gifts during the holidays, but I tend to get a few for close family (daughter, significant other, brother, sister, mom, dad). That is it. No point in going absolutely broke, and being miserable the entire year for one day. Me being able to be home for the Holiday's is a gift enough, when I can actually make it there.
 
M

MikeSavage

Active Member
savagewind said:
I think you mean that is not how your version of The Bible says God views it.
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What I mean is that God's inspired word says that. Stop with your religion induced prejudice against God's Named People, His Earthly organization. The only ones on Earth doing His will. The same will you are supposed to be doing, but refuse to.
 
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